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Message: <blockquote data-quote="James McMurray" data-source="post: 1388395" data-attributes="member: 743">Because "original spell" is not defined anywhere, Caliban's take on it is just as valid as yours. Thus, both of your interpretations of how metmagics interact are either a) equally valid, or b) equally "rubbish." And yet you seem to feel that your unfounded interpretation is somehow better than his. Can you point to any single rule that backs up your claims? How can you apply tein before cold, but still manage to twin the "cold fireball." If you're twinning a cold fireball, obviously cold substitution has been applied before twin.Same here. How can you apply twin first, but still see empower?I submit that you should perhaps endeavor to do the same yourself. Oddly enough, neither side's interpretation has any basis in the rules. One side sees an example of interaction between two feats and decides that it is an eception to a general rule. The other side sees the same thing and decides it is the general rule, that simply isn't mentioned anywhere else beause it isn't necessary to mention it anywhere else. Who's right? Without more rules to clarify the issue, the answer is "both are right, for their games."And for the record: trying to sound like a lawyer doesn't give your arguments any more weight. This is not a courtroom. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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