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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doggywoggy" data-source="post: 4808519" data-attributes="member: 83752">Hey, if we take the dice rolling out of Dnd, is it still Dnd? Why not remove d20s too? You could have a list of to hit values like 20 - 18 - 14 - 8 - 4 and make it real cheeze munchkin "nobody can die cuz they'll cry" type gaming. Point buy is the most min-maxiest thing ever. If you roll really badly, re-roll. If you roll really good, try not to die (oops, because death should actually be a likely occurrence to all adventurers) so you get to keep those great stats and make it higher.Some people just have more "points" dealt to them in life. Why not in Dnd? It's becoming more and more like communism: cut the oaks down because they are too lofty and grab up all the light. I really tweaks me badly how min-maxy it is, and loses that "danger" feeling that keeps you on the edge of your seat. I like not knowing EXACTLY how many hit points I will have at 20th level. (this is coming from a 2nd ed guy). 4th ed is fun too, but so unrealistic because of changes like this.If *I* were DMing 4th ed, I'd re-instate Hit point rolling (max at 1st), 4d6 drop lowest + re-roll 1s (making it somewhat rare to have really poor stats, and fun to have great stats too). If the characters are uber stats-wise, have them fight creatures higher level than them...they will progress faster xp-wise that way too, and feel more heroic to boot. In my 2nd ed game players regularly die (especially the foolish ones), and the ones who make it higher such as myself often prefer the heroic do-or-die approach (my wizard was head on in melee against a vampire count's hulky minions and himself before the paladins could arrive, making my chain lightning especially effective). I'm now 13th level...yay. I had barely any spells left and no enchantments with a bunch of angry villagers trying to hurt me, and I managed to still fight the Evil and prove my valor against all odds (the cardinal eventually showed up and cast several Heals and Restorations on us for the lost levels due to energy drain). Last night's aventure will stick in my mind my whole life. Several of us were within one hp of minus 10, repeatedly, as we keep trying to fight off vampire bats to cleanse the land.Without risk, without fear of really, permanently dying and losing your loved character, where is the fun? Where is the glory? It's like action video games where you can save anywhere you want. That takes all the fear out of the game...just kills it for me. In real life you don't get to auto-continue with another quarter. If it's game over, it's game over, pal. If your character stats are gimpy, fine, play a disadvantaged beggar or runt-of-the-litter and let your roleplaying make it fun. Some of the best characters in our games *ever* were the gimpiest stat-wise. Turn a disadvantage into an advantage. It's a question of maturity. If you don't even have one stat above 16, then ya I'd say that's not a viable character and re-roll it entirely. Otherwise, pick a class based on your stats that works out well enough and let the dice fall where they may. Many young men want to be fighter pilots or astronauts or rock stars, but that doesn't happen for everyone, does it. There is no democracy in natural aptitude. It's not fair, deal with it."Fortune presents gifts not according to the book." --Dead Can Dance</blockquote>

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