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<blockquote data-quote="mkletch" data-source="post: 499975" data-attributes="member: 3396">I do think that the coughing and choking counts as &quot;voluntary resumption of breathing&quot;, and here's why.&nbsp; Normally, breathing is a free action.&nbsp; What miasma does is make it a full round action.&nbsp; So, as long as you hold your breath, you act.&nbsp; If you take a full round action to catch your breath, that means you've stopped holding your breath.Now, you cannot cast a spell with a verbal component while holding your breath or coughing/choking, so it shuts down most spellcasters except spontaneous casters with Silent Spell, or those that have Silent spells prepared.&nbsp; That is, IMO, why vocalize was removed in 3E - it was replaced with a feat, and to include the spell would invalidate the feat (almost like how haste rules over Quickened Spell).Is misama broken?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; Should it allow a save?&nbsp; Probably, but that does not mean it is broken.&nbsp; If you treat the spell as &quot;hold your breath until you die&quot;, well, that is a bit harsh.&nbsp; But you still have several rounds for someone to dispel it (basically the argument, which I do not agree with BTW, that haste is balanced because slow is theoretically available to everyone).&nbsp; In any case, I do not believe that miasma works like that.Sure, it is powerful, but so is wall of force (no reflex save to avoid being trapped), or any of the power word spells.&nbsp; Any spell used in exactly the right situation will be nearly as powerful (e.g. fireball a rope or wooden bridge; the resulting falling damage has no save).Many creatures (whole categories, in fact) do not care about breathing: construct, elementals, ooze, plant and undead.&nbsp; The spell is totally ineffective against these.&nbsp; And remember that most &quot;save or die&quot; spells are at 5th level.&nbsp; This is a &quot;no save, but you don't die immediately&quot; for the harsher interpretation, and &quot;no save, but you are a bit limited in how or what you do&quot; for how I read it.So, after this treatise, I'll wrap by saying that miasma merely says that you can hold you breath, not that you must.&nbsp; To me, that means there is an option built into the spell, that the victim chooses.&nbsp; The only penalties outlined in miasma are if you hold your breath to avoid losing the action.&nbsp; The spell would have been more clear if they had left out the in-spell rules reference for holding your breath and made you look it up in the DMG.&nbsp; Aside from flavor text, the spell description could be &quot;Do nothing, or hold you breath&quot;.&nbsp; Since they are exclusive of each other, doing nothing counts as &quot;no longer holding your breath&quot; and resets the Fort save if necessary.-Fletch!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mkletch, post: 499975, member: 3396"] I [b][u]do[/u][/b] think that the coughing and choking counts as "voluntary resumption of breathing", and here's why. Normally, breathing is a free action. What [i]miasma[/i] does is make it a full round action. So, as long as you hold your breath, you act. If you take a full round action to catch your breath, that means you've stopped holding your breath. Now, you cannot cast a spell with a verbal component while holding your breath or coughing/choking, so it shuts down most spellcasters except spontaneous casters with Silent Spell, or those that have Silent spells prepared. That is, IMO, why [i]vocalize[/i] was removed in 3E - it was replaced with a feat, and to include the spell would invalidate the feat (almost like how [i]haste[/i] rules over Quickened Spell). Is [i]misama[/i] broken? No. Should it allow a save? Probably, but that does not mean it is broken. If you treat the spell as "hold your breath until you die", well, that is a bit harsh. But you still have several rounds for someone to [i]dispel[/i] it (basically the argument, which I do not agree with BTW, that [i]haste[/i] is balanced because [i]slow[/i] is theoretically available to everyone). In any case, I do not believe that [i]miasma[/i] works like that. Sure, it is powerful, but so is [i]wall of force[/i] (no reflex save to avoid being trapped), or any of the [i]power word[/i] spells. Any spell used in exactly the right situation will be nearly as powerful (e.g. [i]fireball[/i] a rope or wooden bridge; the resulting falling damage has no save). Many creatures (whole categories, in fact) do not care about breathing: construct, elementals, ooze, plant and undead. The spell is totally ineffective against these. And remember that most "save or die" spells are at 5th level. This is a "no save, but you don't die immediately" for the harsher interpretation, and "no save, but you are a bit limited in how or what you do" for how I read it. So, after this treatise, I'll wrap by saying that [i]miasma[/i] merely says that you [u]can[/u] hold you breath, not that you must. To me, that means there is an option built into the spell, that the victim chooses. The only penalties outlined in [i]miasma[/i] are if you hold your breath to avoid losing the action. The spell would have been more clear if they had left out the in-spell rules reference for holding your breath and made you look it up in the DMG. Aside from flavor text, the spell description could be "Do nothing, [u]or[/u] hold you breath". Since they are exclusive of each other, doing nothing counts as "no longer holding your breath" and resets the Fort save if necessary. -Fletch! [/QUOTE]

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