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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jezter6" data-source="post: 3296762" data-attributes="member: 6567">While not a 'combat test,' greywulf's own comments about the deadliness of Lvl 20 on 20 combat show exactly what both of us (Larcen and myself) are distinctly concerned about:He later said that this was sans magical trappings, but considering that they should scale pretty evenly (IE: the rogue gets +3 armor, the dwarf has a +3 axe). Otherwise it would obviously skew the favor in one direction or another of one had some massive magical armor situation going on.My major point is that (ignoring the fact that there is no 'BAB' term, yet the net effect is everyone gets BAB +1/level, fighter getting even better) we're creating attack machines way to quickly, and for classes that do not deserve it. AND we are not changing the way AC and HP are derived, so statistically across the board any friend or foe made up with character classes is either going to demolish a monster (with standard AC and attack bonus stats) or be completely decimated by some high HP consuming attacks because they are all at a relatively low level of HP.Considering the magic user has d6 HP, but loses that while casting spells, puts him back on what a balanced d20 wizard would be averaging a d4 HD over the same levels. However, the m20 MU can stand toe to toe with a d20 mage because the m20 MU has a full d20 fighter attacking bonus. Heck, when spells are goine, the m20 MU can just walk up and pound the living crap out of him with his staff because he can hit 2 or even 3 times per round.My only though, and reason why it's unplayable, is that m20 destroys the balance of d20 so far that any 1-to-1 conversion is near impossible.Let's take an Ogre. d20 - it's a CR3 monster. Which means it should stand up to a full party of lvl 3 PCs, taking up approx 25% of resources.Converting to md20:Ogre (HP 4d8+11 = 29hp), AC 16, Great Club +8 melee (2d8+7)In d20 mode, the fighter might hit him that first round, but will only do about 1d8+3 (8) damage. leaving the Ogre with 21hp.The rogue and cleric fail to hit, wizard gets off a lvl 1 spell for 5. Dropping the ogre to 16.In md20 mode, the fighter has 2 shots at him. Let's say for argument that he only hits once for the same 8 damage.Now the expert has the same attack bonus as the d20 fighter would have, so now HE hits them for 8 damage.Now the cleric has the same attack bonus as the d20 fighter, so now HE hits for 5 damage.And the wizard casts HIS spell for 5 damage.Ogre now resides at: 3 HP (that's one lucky ass ogre)Ogre returns fire with 2 hits. 1 to the fighter (avg 16 dmg) and 1 to the expert (16 dmg).Chances are that one of those 2 could go down and out at the first round. The ogre won't live to see another day, and chances are 1 PC is dying, the other with maybe 1-4 HP left.If the fighter would have hit on his 2nd attack (+8/+3 - I think?), and since it's better than the d20 fighter, he probably would have...dead ogre in 1 round.Had the ogre won initiative, he could have easily taken out 1 PC in round one, and left with 3 HP would have easily killed another in round 2.My take on it - PCs are too powerful when attacking, but not powerful enough to defend. If 2 PCs die, it's harder than a CR3 encounter. If a CR3 dies in round 1, it's easier than a CR3 encounter. It's ALL about who wins init in this system.</blockquote>

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