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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Deimodius" data-source="post: 3787211" data-attributes="member: 14322">Hello, everyone. I'm a bit late to the party (by about a year) but I discovered this thread on the ENWorld home page and was instantly sucked in. Though I have not ready every single post, I have spent the last week slogging through EVERY page! It is amazing to do it, and to see how this system (and the alternates) progressed from Greywulf's first post until today. I also noticed that this thread went like gangbusters for so long, and then suddenly fell off! What happened?Anyway, here is my first quasi-contribution. I say "quasi" because it's not my idea, but someone else's and I haven't seen it discussed.For having a cleric turn, why not use the alternate Turning rules from the Unearthed Arcana? They are OGL, are they not? (Although for m20 they should be modified a bit).The Undead Turning: Level Check variant (UA pg67) has the cleric make a level check against each undead up to a certain HD limit, and within the 60' range. The cleric's level check (like a Wizards level check) is 1d20 + Cleric lvl + Cha mod. The DC to beat is 10 + Monster HD + Turn Resistance (if any) + Cha mod. A cleric can affect a number of HD worth of creatures = to Effective Cleric lvl x 3. Any affected creatures are "frozen in place for 1 round as if paralysed" (even creatures with immunity to paralysis). The cleric can concentrate each round to prolong the effect up to 10 rounds. If the creature is attacked or takes damage, the effect is broken and the creature can act normally on it's _next turn_. UA also suggests that if you use this variant, undead with turn resistance of +4 or higher should get a turn resistance increase of an extra +2.Beating the DC by 5 or more means the cleric can choose to turn or rebuke (if evil) the undead normally (rather than just freezing them). If the creature's HD is = to 1/2 the Cleric's lvl or lower, no check is needed (it automatically succeeds), the undead is destroyed, and it still counts towards total HD worth that can be affected.For m20, I would see it working something like this:Turn Check = 1d20 + Clr lvl + MIND modDC = 10 + creature HD + Turn Resistance + MIND modIn the interests of speeding play, the PC makes only 1 turn check roll and it is applied to all undead within range from lowest to highest HD in order until all HD that cleric can affect are used. So a lvl 1 cleric can affect a total of 3 HD worth of undead with that one check.As above, undead with HD equal to or less than 1/2 the cleric's lvl are automatically affected and are destroyed. HD of these undead are still part of total HD that can be affected.The cost to use this ability is a loss of HP equal to the total HD the cleric affects (or chooses to affect).Is this simple enough for m20? Does it unbalance the classes?EDIT: So I just read through the most recent version of the rules and see that the rule there for Turning Undead is pretty simply, and I like that it becomes easier with damage done to the creature. I believe I recall a post where someone said that would add to the tactics of it.Shouldn't it cost something to use this ability, though, to balance with the Magi? Perhaps a number XP equal to the total HD turned?</blockquote>

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