Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
Middle Earth questions
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Agback" data-source="post: 250239" data-attributes="member: 5328"><p>(1) Sauron was a maia of the people of Aulë, perhaps the most powerful of the Maiar. He joined the rebellion of Melkor (a.k.a. Morgoth) and was Morgoth's chief lieutenant until the War of Wrath.</p><p></p><p>The problem with this answer is that if you had read 'The Silmarillion' you would have known it, but as you haven't read the Silmarillion you don't know what it means.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> I will attempt a rough translation:</p><p></p><p>"Sauron was an angel of the group assisting Aulë (the archangel in charge of stone and craft). He was perhaps the most powerful angel apart from the archangels (although perhaps Ossë or Eonwë would give him a run for his money). He joined a rebellion against God led by Melkor (Morgoth), and was his chief deputy until the fourteen archangels loyal to God sent an army of elves led by angels to destroy the rebellion."</p><p></p><p>(2) At any time in ME history, any of the fourteen Valar ("archangels") could have trashed Sauron. The maia ("angel") Ëonwë, leader of the hosts of Valinor, could have thrashed him in combat but probably not matched him in other ways. The same is probably true of a few other maiar and perhaps even of some of the stompier elves living in Valinor or Mandos ("Purgatory"). The Host of Valinor could have wiped him and his forces off the face of the Earth. But the battle between Sauon and a Vala or Sauron and a group of maiar, or perhaps even between Sauron and the Vanyar ("fair elves") and Noldor ("knowing elves") led by Ingwë and Fingolfin, would have caused untold destruction and killed tens of thousands of bystanders, and would not have solved the problem of evil. Which is why the Vala (or perhaps Illuvatar ("God")) sent Frodo, Aragorn, and Faramir (at least, they <em>tried</em> to send Faramir, but Boromir pr-empted his mission.</p><p></p><p>Also, at one particular time in ME history, Sauron was defeated by the army of the men of Numenor and taken prisoner by their king, Ar-Phazaron. But he soon corrupted the king and most of the Numenoreans, and Illuvatar ("God") destroyed Numenor.</p><p></p><p>At another time, he was challenged by the Last Alliance of Men and Elves, defeated, and killed by Gil-galad, Elendil, Cirdan, and Elrond ganging up on him.</p><p></p><p>(3) 'Lorien', 'Lothlorien', 'Laurelindorenan', and 'The Golden Wood' are different names for the same place.</p><p></p><p>(4) A balrog is a fallen maia ("angel"), one of the ones that joined the Rebellion of Melkor. There were originally at least hundreds or thousands, but most were destroyed by the Host of Valinor (consisting of elves led by maiar) in the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age.</p><p></p><p>(5) A wizard (ista) is a maia on a special mission, sent by Manwë (chief of the Valar and vala of the air and weather) to oppose Sauron in Middle-earth. The istari were incarnated in real bodies, and were forbidden or prevented from using most of their angelic powers or from opposing Sauron by force. To quote from JRR Tolkien's "Unfinished Tales" 'Of this Order the number is unknown; but of those who came to the north of Middle-earth, where there was most hope... the chiefs were five." The five were Curumo (Saruman), Aiwendil (Radagst), Olorin (Gandalf), and Alatar and Pallando (the 'Blue Wizards'). Curumo was of the people of Aulë (vala of stone and craft), Radagast of the people of Yavanna (vala of plants and forests, and Aulë's wife), and Olorin of the people of Irmo (vala of visions, dreams, rest, and spiritual healing) but the delegate of Manwë (chief of the Valar and vala of the air and weather) and Varda (queen of the Valier and vala of the sky, stars, and the elves). Alatar was of the people of Oromë (the vala who hunts monsters and fell beasts). Pallando was of the people perhaps of Oromë, but perhaps rather of Namo (vala of Fate and guardian of the Dead) and/or his sister Nienna (vala of pity, mourning, and history). </p><p></p><p>Regards,</p><p></p><p></p><p>Agback</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Agback, post: 250239, member: 5328"] (1) Sauron was a maia of the people of Aulë, perhaps the most powerful of the Maiar. He joined the rebellion of Melkor (a.k.a. Morgoth) and was Morgoth's chief lieutenant until the War of Wrath. The problem with this answer is that if you had read 'The Silmarillion' you would have known it, but as you haven't read the Silmarillion you don't know what it means.:( I will attempt a rough translation: "Sauron was an angel of the group assisting Aulë (the archangel in charge of stone and craft). He was perhaps the most powerful angel apart from the archangels (although perhaps Ossë or Eonwë would give him a run for his money). He joined a rebellion against God led by Melkor (Morgoth), and was his chief deputy until the fourteen archangels loyal to God sent an army of elves led by angels to destroy the rebellion." (2) At any time in ME history, any of the fourteen Valar ("archangels") could have trashed Sauron. The maia ("angel") Ëonwë, leader of the hosts of Valinor, could have thrashed him in combat but probably not matched him in other ways. The same is probably true of a few other maiar and perhaps even of some of the stompier elves living in Valinor or Mandos ("Purgatory"). The Host of Valinor could have wiped him and his forces off the face of the Earth. But the battle between Sauon and a Vala or Sauron and a group of maiar, or perhaps even between Sauron and the Vanyar ("fair elves") and Noldor ("knowing elves") led by Ingwë and Fingolfin, would have caused untold destruction and killed tens of thousands of bystanders, and would not have solved the problem of evil. Which is why the Vala (or perhaps Illuvatar ("God")) sent Frodo, Aragorn, and Faramir (at least, they [I]tried[/I] to send Faramir, but Boromir pr-empted his mission. Also, at one particular time in ME history, Sauron was defeated by the army of the men of Numenor and taken prisoner by their king, Ar-Phazaron. But he soon corrupted the king and most of the Numenoreans, and Illuvatar ("God") destroyed Numenor. At another time, he was challenged by the Last Alliance of Men and Elves, defeated, and killed by Gil-galad, Elendil, Cirdan, and Elrond ganging up on him. (3) 'Lorien', 'Lothlorien', 'Laurelindorenan', and 'The Golden Wood' are different names for the same place. (4) A balrog is a fallen maia ("angel"), one of the ones that joined the Rebellion of Melkor. There were originally at least hundreds or thousands, but most were destroyed by the Host of Valinor (consisting of elves led by maiar) in the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age. (5) A wizard (ista) is a maia on a special mission, sent by Manwë (chief of the Valar and vala of the air and weather) to oppose Sauron in Middle-earth. The istari were incarnated in real bodies, and were forbidden or prevented from using most of their angelic powers or from opposing Sauron by force. To quote from JRR Tolkien's "Unfinished Tales" 'Of this Order the number is unknown; but of those who came to the north of Middle-earth, where there was most hope... the chiefs were five." The five were Curumo (Saruman), Aiwendil (Radagst), Olorin (Gandalf), and Alatar and Pallando (the 'Blue Wizards'). Curumo was of the people of Aulë (vala of stone and craft), Radagast of the people of Yavanna (vala of plants and forests, and Aulë's wife), and Olorin of the people of Irmo (vala of visions, dreams, rest, and spiritual healing) but the delegate of Manwë (chief of the Valar and vala of the air and weather) and Varda (queen of the Valier and vala of the sky, stars, and the elves). Alatar was of the people of Oromë (the vala who hunts monsters and fell beasts). Pallando was of the people perhaps of Oromë, but perhaps rather of Namo (vala of Fate and guardian of the Dead) and/or his sister Nienna (vala of pity, mourning, and history). Regards, Agback [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
Middle Earth questions
Top