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<blockquote data-quote="Ancalagon" data-source="post: 7391723" data-attributes="member: 23">I think I'm starting to see the root of our disagreement here.&nbsp; What we are arguing about is not the slope of the &quot;top&quot; of the curve - where the high level casters increase in power very quickly, we definitely seem to agree on that.&nbsp; We're talking about the shape of the curve, and especially what happens at the bottom.(The old saying was quadratic btw).In previous editions (esp 2nd ed and earlier), the wizard had few HP, few spells and no cantrips.&nbsp; I also noted that 2nd level spells seemed weaker back then.&nbsp; So the first level wizard was quite weak... and the second level wizard was still quite weak compared to the fighter.&nbsp; The third level wizard was still weak (although getting a bit better).&nbsp; It's only at level 5 that the wizard suddenly started pulling their weight - and with only one or two 3rd level slot, not by a ton. And then the increase started getting more and more drastic, resulting in a non-linear shaped curve.In 5e there has been effort done in making the low level wizards less weak (cantrips, 2nd level spells are a bit better, more hp) and also reigning in high level mages with the concentration rule (soo good!).&nbsp;&nbsp; So I have to conceded that the non linearity of the curve is less than before...Are we now understanding each other?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ancalagon, post: 7391723, member: 23"] I think I'm starting to see the root of our disagreement here. What we are arguing about is not the slope of the "top" of the curve - where the high level casters increase in power very quickly, we definitely seem to agree on that. We're talking about the shape of the curve, and especially what happens at the bottom. (The old saying was quadratic btw). In previous editions (esp 2nd ed and earlier), the wizard had few HP, few spells and no cantrips. I also noted that 2nd level spells seemed weaker back then. So the first level wizard was quite weak... and the second level wizard was still quite weak compared to the fighter. The third level wizard was still weak (although getting a bit better). It's only at level 5 that the wizard suddenly started pulling their weight - and with only one or two 3rd level slot, not by a ton. And then the increase started getting more and more drastic, resulting in a non-linear shaped curve. In 5e there has been effort done in making the low level wizards less weak (cantrips, 2nd level spells are a bit better, more hp) and also reigning in high level mages with the concentration rule (soo good!). So I have to conceded that the non linearity of the curve is less than before... Are we now understanding each other? [/QUOTE]

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