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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Andor" data-source="post: 5816976" data-attributes="member: 1879">Classes are a gameist construction. They, in a sense, don't exist in the game world, and neither do roles. Put another way: The GM presents the players with a set of problems and the class is one part of the PCs toolkit for dealing with that problem.To insist on roles is to insist that the only way to deal with a problem is with a toolkit with a hammer, a screwdriver, a wrench and flashlight. And that then constrains the GM to make scenarios that call for those four tools and nothing else.You might like that, I'd find it dull. I want my toolkit to include ducttape and C4.It's up to the players and the PCs to deal with the problems however they want to. It might be to boot in the door and start lopping off heads. It might be to convince the goblins that the Orcs are going to betray them and start an internal conflict. It might be to insipre the local humans to fortify the end of the valley and to lead them in mass warfare. It might be to poison the well in the humanoids camp. Or maybe you cut a deal with the Orcs, open the town gate and make off with the McGuffin while they sack the town.Now quick, how do the four roles play into those choices?You're trying to insist that roles are how the game is played. I think they are a tiny subset of the way the game is played. Here I think I need to disagree with you. Because this is a fantasy game, and that means it includes the magical and the fantastic. And if having magical and fantastic powers does not actually give you any abilities that a magicless character has not then I'm not seeing the wonder.If the wizard needs to get to the flying castle he casts fly. The Fighter goes out, steals a griffin egg, rears the kit, trains it to the saddle and uses his flying mount to get to the castle. Not as fast as the spell, but maybe cooler.The the Wizard wants to know what the evil Baron is doing he casts scry. The Fighter hires a spy. Slower, but possibly more effective. If the Princess gets abducted by a demon that drags her to hell the Wizard casts Gate and follows. The Fighter.... hires a Wizard.For most things time, effort and chutzpah will substitute for magic, a torch is just as effective as a light spell and burns things as a bonus. But sometimes you need magic.Traveling to other planes. Bringing back the dead. Enchantment. Travelling a thousand miles in an afternoon. Sometimes you gotta have a spell caster.</blockquote>

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