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<blockquote data-quote="Clint_L" data-source="post: 9620116" data-attributes="member: 7035894">&quot;Participation trophy&quot; as a metaphor is always used in a derogatory manner. Does anyone dispute that?All trophies are generally stupid, IMO. They tend to reward the wrong things, and are a bane upon education (don't even get me started on marks and reports cards, and I'm a teacher). If the purpose of education is to help people maximize their potential, trophies are generally counter-productive. And they usually aren't there for the student, they are there for the fans (the family, the people in the bleachers, whatever). There is nothing sadder than an adult with a trophy wall.Setting that aside, the philosophy of &quot;everyone winning and no one's feelings getting hurt&quot; seems like a pretty good ideal for a TTRPG, specifically, doesn't it? But let's break it down:&quot;Everyone winning&quot;: There is no specific &quot;win state&quot; for most TTRPGs. The point is to work together to create a fun story, and on the way there will be trials and tribulations. I mean, &quot;the friends we made along the way&quot; is a meme expression at this point...but isn't it actually the whole point of these games? To hang out and entertain each other? If not, what is the point? So I would define &quot;winning,&quot; in the specific context of TTRPGs as &quot;a game where everyone has a good time and wants to come back for more.&quot;&quot;No one's feelings getting hurt.&quot; This just seems like a good design goal for any recreational activity. To me, it implies fairness and treating others with kindness and consideration. What's objectionable here?Don't we all aspire to run games where everyone feels good about themselves and wants to come back?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Clint_L, post: 9620116, member: 7035894"] "Participation trophy" as a metaphor is always used in a derogatory manner. Does anyone dispute that? [I]All[/I] trophies are generally stupid, IMO. They tend to reward the wrong things, and are a bane upon education (don't even get me started on marks and reports cards, and I'm a teacher). If the purpose of education is to help people maximize their potential, trophies are generally counter-productive. And they usually aren't there for the student, they are there for the fans (the family, the people in the bleachers, whatever). There is nothing sadder than an adult with a trophy wall. Setting that aside, the philosophy of "everyone winning and no one's feelings getting hurt" seems like a pretty good ideal for a TTRPG, specifically, doesn't it? But let's break it down: "Everyone winning": There is no specific "win state" for most TTRPGs. The point is to work together to create a fun story, and on the way there will be trials and tribulations. I mean, "the friends we made along the way" is a meme expression at this point...but isn't it actually the whole point of these games? To hang out and entertain each other? If not, what is the point? So I would define "winning," in the specific context of TTRPGs as "a game where everyone has a good time and wants to come back for more." "No one's feelings getting hurt." This just seems like a good design goal for any recreational activity. To me, it implies fairness and treating others with kindness and consideration. What's objectionable here? Don't we all aspire to run games where everyone feels good about themselves and wants to come back? [/QUOTE]

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