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<blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 9623635" data-attributes="member: 6915329">That's quite a strange take on that.First, sure, if it's something you want to accomplish, it's a goal. That's true in real life, so why wouldn't it be true in the game as well?(And trust me, for some of us, even minor things can be goals worth achieving.)But more specifically, in an RPG, what counts as a goal is really up to each individual player to decide. There are going to be players who count every action they take as important (which is why some players get pissy when they fail even an inconsequential roll, like, they missed a Perception check and got ambushed by monsters). There are also players who only care about what they perceive to be the big picture.Perhaps... but in RPGs, individual players are not pawns (or even queens or knights) for you to sacrifice or not care about. Unless you're playing an evil character, I suppose. So, not great analogy. Also, in a less overt comparison, if you want to count things like &quot;exploring this set of ruins&quot; or &quot;picking that lock&quot; as pawns, well, maybe those things aren't actually important to the overall game, or maybe they are, or maybe the players would have engaged in a different type of RP if they had done those things.Also, very few RPGs have actual win states in the sense of you must complete a goal. Sure, you can say &quot;this campaign is called The Reign Of Evil McBadGuy, so the goal is to depose or kill EvilMcBadGuy,&quot; but in reality, even if the players completely fail to do so--maybe he kills them, maybe they decide to join his side--as long as everyone is having fun, it's a win.One of the most fun times I had in a completed campaign had us losing (we failed to prevent the rise of a deity who may or may not have been evil--there was this whole point of view thing), but we lost in such a glorious manner that I count it as a win.This I agree with. Also, &quot;because they're fun&quot; is an acceptable answer.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Faolyn, post: 9623635, member: 6915329"] That's quite a strange take on that. First, sure, if it's something you want to accomplish, it's a goal. That's true in real life, so why wouldn't it be true in the game as well? (And trust me, for some of us, even minor things can be goals worth achieving.) But more specifically, in an RPG, what counts as a goal is really up to each individual player to decide. There are going to be players who count every action they take as important (which is why some players get pissy when they fail even an inconsequential roll, like, they missed a Perception check and got ambushed by monsters). There are also players who only care about what they perceive to be the big picture. Perhaps... but in RPGs, individual players are not pawns (or even queens or knights) for you to sacrifice or not care about. Unless you're playing an evil character, I suppose. So, not great analogy. Also, in a less overt comparison, if you want to count things like "exploring this set of ruins" or "picking that lock" as pawns, well, maybe those things aren't actually important to the overall game, or maybe they are, or maybe the players would have engaged in a different type of RP if they had done those things. Also, very few RPGs have actual win states in the sense of you must complete a goal. Sure, you can say "this campaign is called The Reign Of Evil McBadGuy, so the goal is to depose or kill EvilMcBadGuy," but in reality, even if the players completely fail to do so--maybe he kills them, maybe they decide to join his side--as long as everyone is having fun, it's a win. One of the most fun times I had in a completed campaign had us losing (we failed to prevent the rise of a deity who may or may not have been evil--there was this whole point of view thing), but we lost in such a glorious manner that I count it as a win. This I agree with. Also, "because they're fun" is an acceptable answer. [/QUOTE]

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