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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9774763" data-attributes="member: 93670">Trouble is that the bold bits ignore the relevant mechanics. At no point yet has "attrition [done] its job", that point is after hitting seven to nine medium to hard encounters when players have been making tough choices and needed to start really working together as a team to minimize resource consumption/losses and maximize party effectiveness.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Hurt": let's be real here on this one.  There is one value of "hurt" that has an actual impact on play in 5e.  That's a change from past editions where you had linear HP recovery and death at zero/neg10 with the need to heal all lost up between current and a safe level [spoiler="this  one"][MEDIA=youtube]6darJMyrAE8[/MEDIA] [*][MEDIA=youtube]FmD0ZCDuozk[/MEDIA] [*] [*][/spoiler]</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Exhausted":this is an absurd inclusion given the impact .  2024 improved it a little, but the mechanical books once present in past editions to make room for nuanced concerns like "do we $do/ExpendThing to clear this problem at the cost of using that resource/wasting our buffs and such or whatever are no longer present in 5e. This is a straight choice between "why?  It doesn't matter at all yet and probably can't get to a level where it would quickly enough to matter"  vrs "yes of course. Obviously we should"</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Missing some magic':  again it's not a matter of "some" magic and abilities.  It's a matter of restoring NOVA magic & abilities.  Short rest classes like monk and warlock are particularly egregious on this point because the mechanics of rest recovery and those classes themselves are designed to allow players to force a 5mwd nova loop unless their own party says no for the disempowered GM and declares they will continue on or actively disturb the SR class PC's attempt to take yet another lunch break.  I IME  don't think I've ever seen a party veto a monk/warlock/action surging fighter's attempt to regularly restore nova capability after being bullied into acceptance through claims of things like "come ong uys I need those rests to keep up because of how my class is designed"; but the other way around is self restrained because 5mwd long rest class long rest fueled nova loop results in an embarrassing level of power</li> </ul>Soooo... The characters are not likely forcing a rest less than 24 hours after the last one for any of those reasons.  They are rolling their eyes and saying they will wait because worc has failed to support their meat computer gm on the idea that anything shy of all nova all the time can be fun reasonable or even intended & the players involved have often made character build/action choices that aim to prove that all nova all the time is the only functional way of playing.[Gus Fring]No... That is not the same tangent [/Gus Fring]I quote how this all <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/mike-mearls-explains-why-your-boss-monsters-die-too-easily.715658/post-9774008" target="_blank">started</a>:"Long Rest rules themselves fix this issue as they state:A character can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period" Multiple aspects of the rules related to the original problem are actively harmful to play in how so many of them bend over backwards to enshrine a toxic video game mentality as a blessed thing in need of shielding from any other play style no matter how disruptive that video game mentality becomes.  The line in question that he held up as a solution does nothing to address the related gameplay problems caused by so many of the design choices 5e made.</blockquote>

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