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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily
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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 9784086" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>So my heartbreaker mod for D&D tries to understand and accept this.</p><p></p><p>1. PC damage grows super-linearly. Weapons deal 2[W] at level 5, 3[W] at level 11 and 4[W] at level 17.</p><p>[spoiler]</p><p>Fighter Extra Attack is split into Combat Dominance and Flurry.</p><p></p><p><strong>Fighter's Flurry:</strong> When you take the attack action on your turn and make a weapon attack, you can sacrifice one [W] of damage instead make 2 attacks.</p><p></p><p>(This means a level 5 pure fighter with a greatsword can make 1 attack for 4d6 or two attacks each for 2d6; the second is standard D&D extra attack option. The extra [W] however makes bonus action attacks and reactions more deadly; it also makes multiclassing less painful as it keys off player not class level.)</p><p></p><p><strong>Combat Dominance</strong>: When you make a weapon attack on your turn on an adjacent foe, if the target has not attacked you or damaged you since the end of your last turn, you have advantage. You keep this advantage for weapon attacks until the target attacks you or damages you.</p><p></p><p>(This is a kind of "taunt", but it is aggressive not defensive. Enemies who ignore fighters get punished.)</p><p></p><p>The fighter gains <strong>Extra Attack</strong> (when you take the attack action, you can make an additional attack with a weapon) at level 11 (no sacrifice of a [W], and it stacks with Flurry) and <strong>Extra Attack II</strong> in Tier 4.</p><p></p><p>No other classes get these abilities; instead they get a rewrite that scales similarly.</p><p></p><p>Paladins get <strong>Blessed Weapon</strong> at level 5, which gives their weapon radiant damage, and they get advantage on foes who have attacked any other creature (slightly different "taunt"). This, plus passive boosts to smite effects, gives them scaling damage similar to Fighters.</p><p></p><p>Barbarians get more [W], and when they take the attack action they can also make an unarmed strike or an improvised weapon attack (starting at level 5). The amount of [W] stacks on top of the baseline [W].</p><p></p><p>Rangers get to both attack and cast a Ranger spell as part of their attack action. All rangers pick a class feature of Pack or Hunt; Pack gets a scaling companion, and Hunt gets scaling buffs to Hunter's Mark.</p><p></p><p>Rogues get a Disruptive Strike at level 5 (reaction to an attack, attack first, if your reaction hits the original attack must reroll with disadvantage and target gets resistance to the damage done if it hits), and their sneak attack super-scales with some features later on to keep them on the damage curve.</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>2. Monster HP scales with the above super-linear PC HP. Monster damage scales with PC durability. A level L monster takes ~3 rounds for a level L PC (with the above buffs) to kill, and can kill a level L PC in ~5 rounds.</p><p></p><p>3. Elite(N) monsters count as N monsters of their level and have N times the HP and (N+1)/2 times the damage output. If monsters get 2 attacks, this can be done by giving then (N-1) legendary actions that each include 1 attack's worth of damage.</p><p></p><p>An Elite(N) monster does as much damage as N normal monsters do if the PCs use single-target focus fire on the N normal monsters, wiping them out one at a time, over a fight.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>The PC damage and Monster HP curve (which are parallel) are roughly proportional to the PC HP and monster Damage curve raised to the 1.7th power. This means that a higher level monsters "act like" Elite monsters; their HP goes up faster than their damage output does, so they are suitable as solos for lower level PCs.</p><p></p><p>Suppose a level 4 monster does 20 damage and has 50 HP, and a level 8 monster does 40 damage; it would have 163 HP. An Elite(3) version of the level 4 monster would do ... 40 damage per round and have 150 HP.</p><p></p><p>In short, the Elite(N) is just a short cut way to make a tougher X monster without having to build higher level versions of it; what you get is very similar to what you'd get if you did make that higher level version.</p><p></p><p>All of this then calls back to the increased baseline damage rate. By more damage increase into the baseline class (and doing similar stuff for various casters) we can have monsters that also scale without worrying as much about optimization.</p><p></p><p>And because ways to make monster tougher boost HP, and PC optimization usually focuses on damage, it isn't hard to make a fight last a bit longer without turning the PCs into instant giblets.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 9784086, member: 72555"] So my heartbreaker mod for D&D tries to understand and accept this. 1. PC damage grows super-linearly. Weapons deal 2[W] at level 5, 3[W] at level 11 and 4[W] at level 17. [spoiler] Fighter Extra Attack is split into Combat Dominance and Flurry. [B]Fighter's Flurry:[/B] When you take the attack action on your turn and make a weapon attack, you can sacrifice one [W] of damage instead make 2 attacks. (This means a level 5 pure fighter with a greatsword can make 1 attack for 4d6 or two attacks each for 2d6; the second is standard D&D extra attack option. The extra [W] however makes bonus action attacks and reactions more deadly; it also makes multiclassing less painful as it keys off player not class level.) [B]Combat Dominance[/B]: When you make a weapon attack on your turn on an adjacent foe, if the target has not attacked you or damaged you since the end of your last turn, you have advantage. You keep this advantage for weapon attacks until the target attacks you or damages you. (This is a kind of "taunt", but it is aggressive not defensive. Enemies who ignore fighters get punished.) The fighter gains [B]Extra Attack[/B] (when you take the attack action, you can make an additional attack with a weapon) at level 11 (no sacrifice of a [W], and it stacks with Flurry) and [B]Extra Attack II[/B] in Tier 4. No other classes get these abilities; instead they get a rewrite that scales similarly. Paladins get [b]Blessed Weapon[/b] at level 5, which gives their weapon radiant damage, and they get advantage on foes who have attacked any other creature (slightly different "taunt"). This, plus passive boosts to smite effects, gives them scaling damage similar to Fighters. Barbarians get more [W], and when they take the attack action they can also make an unarmed strike or an improvised weapon attack (starting at level 5). The amount of [W] stacks on top of the baseline [W]. Rangers get to both attack and cast a Ranger spell as part of their attack action. All rangers pick a class feature of Pack or Hunt; Pack gets a scaling companion, and Hunt gets scaling buffs to Hunter's Mark. Rogues get a Disruptive Strike at level 5 (reaction to an attack, attack first, if your reaction hits the original attack must reroll with disadvantage and target gets resistance to the damage done if it hits), and their sneak attack super-scales with some features later on to keep them on the damage curve. [/spoiler] 2. Monster HP scales with the above super-linear PC HP. Monster damage scales with PC durability. A level L monster takes ~3 rounds for a level L PC (with the above buffs) to kill, and can kill a level L PC in ~5 rounds. 3. Elite(N) monsters count as N monsters of their level and have N times the HP and (N+1)/2 times the damage output. If monsters get 2 attacks, this can be done by giving then (N-1) legendary actions that each include 1 attack's worth of damage. An Elite(N) monster does as much damage as N normal monsters do if the PCs use single-target focus fire on the N normal monsters, wiping them out one at a time, over a fight. --- The PC damage and Monster HP curve (which are parallel) are roughly proportional to the PC HP and monster Damage curve raised to the 1.7th power. This means that a higher level monsters "act like" Elite monsters; their HP goes up faster than their damage output does, so they are suitable as solos for lower level PCs. Suppose a level 4 monster does 20 damage and has 50 HP, and a level 8 monster does 40 damage; it would have 163 HP. An Elite(3) version of the level 4 monster would do ... 40 damage per round and have 150 HP. In short, the Elite(N) is just a short cut way to make a tougher X monster without having to build higher level versions of it; what you get is very similar to what you'd get if you did make that higher level version. All of this then calls back to the increased baseline damage rate. By more damage increase into the baseline class (and doing similar stuff for various casters) we can have monsters that also scale without worrying as much about optimization. And because ways to make monster tougher boost HP, and PC optimization usually focuses on damage, it isn't hard to make a fight last a bit longer without turning the PCs into instant giblets. [/QUOTE]
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