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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7370593" data-attributes="member: 996">Like a lot of 'powers' in 4e, it felt like it was pulled right out of an action movie.   It was a rare critter that had a higher WILL than AC. The burst wasn't reduced, and it gained the charm keyword, so, no, not exactly a judo trick.  The main change was, indeed, that you hit to initiate the pull, rather than to deliver damage (which was automatic if the pull left them adjacent, an unintuitive, but solid bit of game design).  Everyone you attacked with it was still marked, though, even if the pull failed for whatever reason, so still a very good defender-role-support exploit. To work in 5e, the Warlord needs to break out of the leader box a bit, and intimidation, trickery, and out-maneuvering type Gambits that go more into the old controller box would be a great way.  The other non-magical sub-classes get very little of that, while having tankiness & DPR to spare, so it'd round out the range of character concepts that don't resort to magic, as well. Y'know, 5e-for-4e is one of the typos I see the most around here.  I feel like it's a slightly hopeful sign. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  I quite enjoy running 5e, but it's yet to appeal too strongly to me as a player.  The Druid really appeals, but the very occasional (very, it's been years) chance to play my old 1e Druid still appeals a bit more, I suppose.  I don't hold out any hope for the Sorcerer or Fighter ot return to their 3.x-build-to-concept heights either.  So, long being tired of casters other than the afore-mentioned very occasional paleo-gaming, and not caring for DPR beat-sticks, really leaves 5e players options oddly sparse for me. The ease of introduction to and the retention of returning players is amazing with 5e.  And, there's more folks trying it thanks to the way boardgames have taken off, there's just more traffic through the stores.  It still feels like a hard sell to entirely-new players, but that's almost always been the case. The funny thing is, there's a /lot/ of 4e in 5e, but it's at the level of mechanical detail.  It's there, but as a whole, just contributes to delivering the standard games' classic feel, not any of the emergent characteristics that made 4e so 'revolutionary' (for D&D, which, of course, has always been a very evolutionary, if not determinedly primeval, system).  If you're going to say 'h4ter,' you might as well own '4venger,' too......sorry, just the bitter old cynic in me.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I suppose that's your view.  That's not how it was pitched when the Next playtest started. 5e's thing was to be D&D for everyone who ever loved D&D.  Even the ones who were bitter about what they'd had in 3.5 (and still had, along with a lot more, in PF) or what they had in the classic game (and had, re-booted, in OSR games in profusion), and, yes, even the ones that had been happy to adopt the current ed at the time. Oddly, I have been finding myself running my Epic 4e campaign more and more like I run 5e (and ran 1e back in the day).  More improvisation, more unique items (not more items, but items that are more unique & higher-impact), and less linear (though still not quite a sandbox, as my players very clearly don't want that).Not sure, what, if anything, that indicates. Doing so /instead/ of registering your desire to play one in the current ed is abandoning it.  Not nearly as dramatic as edition warring against it, of course, but still giving up on it in a real sense. Oh, I've been bitter & cynical since I was 8, that's just my personality coming through the keyboard.</blockquote>

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