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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7371244" data-attributes="member: 996">What? No, CoDzilla was a nominally-unintended consequence of trying to address a symptom, &quot;no one wants to play the cleric,&quot; of the problem(s).&nbsp;And 4e as a whole tried to address those problems (with varying degrees of success), the Warlord was only one part of the solution.&nbsp; 4e &amp; 5e (and even 2e &amp; 3e) also addressed that same symptom by providing cleric alternatives.&nbsp; In 2e, for instance, in a very small way:&nbsp; the Druid &amp; Cleric lists were normalized so the Druid could heal from 1st level, becoming a viable alternative.&nbsp; In 3e, in addition to powering the cleric up to make it more attractive to players, the Druid and Bard (and of course, Paladin) could heal significantly - and item-based, between-combat healing was an alternative that caused new issues of it's own.&nbsp; In 4e, the formalization of roles, and a 'Leader' from every Source meant you could, if 'stuck' or preferring to provide that role for your party, play the general ballpark concept (clothy caster, psi, warrior, etc) you might prefer if you weren't interested in going divine - 4e also took steps to make the Leader role, however desirable, not absolutely obligatory, specifically in the case of healing, via Healing Surges which gave even a leaderless party adequate between-combat healing, and by giving everyone a Second Wind to use a surge 1/encounter, in combat (including being 'triggered' by an ally using a heal check, or a nat 20 death save).&nbsp; 5e provided some of the same alternatives to divine healing, including the Bard &amp; Druid, though HD do not represent nearly the same proportion of healing as surges, and cannot be used in combat&nbsp; - and left some out - like Second Wind for non-fighters, and, of course, the Warlord, Artificer, Shaman &amp; Ardent.&nbsp; To be fair, of those, only the Warlord was also in a PH1, so omission of the rest was expected based on the stated criteria at the start of the playtest.&nbsp; 4e wasn't open source so you can't just paste it up on line.&nbsp; OK, shouldn't.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7371244, member: 996"] What? No, CoDzilla was a nominally-unintended consequence of trying to address a symptom, "no one wants to play the cleric," of the problem(s). And 4e as a whole tried to address those problems (with varying degrees of success), the Warlord was only one part of the solution. 4e & 5e (and even 2e & 3e) also addressed that same symptom by providing cleric alternatives. In 2e, for instance, in a very small way: the Druid & Cleric lists were normalized so the Druid could heal from 1st level, becoming a viable alternative. In 3e, in addition to powering the cleric up to make it more attractive to players, the Druid and Bard (and of course, Paladin) could heal significantly - and item-based, between-combat healing was an alternative that caused new issues of it's own. In 4e, the formalization of roles, and a 'Leader' from every Source meant you could, if 'stuck' or preferring to provide that role for your party, play the general ballpark concept (clothy caster, psi, warrior, etc) you might prefer if you weren't interested in going divine - 4e also took steps to make the Leader role, however desirable, not absolutely obligatory, specifically in the case of healing, via Healing Surges which gave even a leaderless party adequate between-combat healing, and by giving everyone a Second Wind to use a surge 1/encounter, in combat (including being 'triggered' by an ally using a heal check, or a nat 20 death save). 5e provided some of the same alternatives to divine healing, including the Bard & Druid, though HD do not represent nearly the same proportion of healing as surges, and cannot be used in combat - and left some out - like Second Wind for non-fighters, and, of course, the Warlord, Artificer, Shaman & Ardent. To be fair, of those, only the Warlord was also in a PH1, so omission of the rest was expected based on the stated criteria at the start of the playtest. 4e wasn't open source so you can't just paste it up on line. OK, shouldn't. [/QUOTE]

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