Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 7373163" data-attributes="member: 6932123"><p>It's not that the Warlord <em>concept</em> doesn't fit within 5E. It's that the Warlord <em>class</em> doesn't (easily) fit within 5E. I can think of tons of character concepts that at least overlap with the Warlord concept. The problem is that they are not precisely defined by the Warlord concept (at least the characters that would actually be adventurers).</p><p></p><p>If I had to describe it in concrete terms, it's like you have a choice between a Block, a Paper, a Balloon, and a Red. It's easy to have a Red Block, or a Red Balloon, or a Red Paper, but having a Red by itself just leaves you asking, "Red what?"</p><p></p><p>4E gave you a Red, and a Green, and a Blue, and a Purple, and mixed those together with Blocks and Balloons and Papers. They gave you puzzle pieces, and asked you to solve the puzzle of creating the character. 5E doesn't approach character creation that way, except somewhat in how it handles subclasses. So when you ask for a Red, well, clearly that's a subclass. But you don't want it to be a subclass.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Paul Farquhar asked for character examples, and the first response was a real-life team coach. The main problem is that <em>the coach isn't playing the game</em>. The <em>adventurers</em> are the players on the field. In order to bring the coach in as a playable character/class, you have to figure out how to get the coach out on the field with the team. So that entire analogy kind of falls apart. This is the same as my example of the strategist in the castle. He may be a warlord, but he's not an adventurer.</p><p></p><p>I gave my own example answers, and noted that every single one of them is really a subclass of another class, or a multiclass, or something similar. Warlord as a <em>character concept</em> just doesn't seem to stand on its own. Warlord as a <em>mechanic</em> easily stands on its own, because mechanics are character-agnostic. The problem is that the design of a class presumes it carries enough weight to be strongly used as a character concept.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll go back and ask a variant on Paul's question:</p><p></p><p>What fictional (or even real) character would you try to design that fits the following criteria:</p><p></p><p>1) Is a Warlord</p><p>2) Is not a Fighter</p><p>3) Is an adventurer (ie: not just the strategist who stays in the castle while the army goes out to fight, or the old man in the bar handing out quest hooks)</p><p></p><p>Of those that qualify, which of them are not actually Rogue/Warlord, or Mage/Warlord, or Priest/Warlord, or Barbarian/Warlord?</p><p></p><p>Remember, I'm asking for a <em>character</em>, not a collection of mechanics. I'm asking if you can be a new player wanting to a play a character like [XX], and find the best fit in the system to support said character is Warlord, and <em>only</em> Warlord.</p><p></p><p>Not being able to separate two classes of idea is not in itself 'wrong' or 'bad'. Gishes are the personification of that, mixing the magic user with the fighter. On the other hand, there is no class called 'Gish'.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Closest analog of police is the city watch/city guard, which are your basic fighter/soldier types. Paramedic seems to map to alchemist/chemist/medic. A potentially non-magical supporter type, sure, but not a warlord. Rescue dog handler and lifeguard and first responders may also be non-magic supporters, but are, again, not warlords. That little 'war' part is kind of crucial.</p><p></p><p>Lelouch does work, though. Leia also sort of does, though she also sort of doesn't fit <em>any</em> character class.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kinematics, post: 7373163, member: 6932123"] It's not that the Warlord [I]concept[/I] doesn't fit within 5E. It's that the Warlord [I]class[/I] doesn't (easily) fit within 5E. I can think of tons of character concepts that at least overlap with the Warlord concept. The problem is that they are not precisely defined by the Warlord concept (at least the characters that would actually be adventurers). If I had to describe it in concrete terms, it's like you have a choice between a Block, a Paper, a Balloon, and a Red. It's easy to have a Red Block, or a Red Balloon, or a Red Paper, but having a Red by itself just leaves you asking, "Red what?" 4E gave you a Red, and a Green, and a Blue, and a Purple, and mixed those together with Blocks and Balloons and Papers. They gave you puzzle pieces, and asked you to solve the puzzle of creating the character. 5E doesn't approach character creation that way, except somewhat in how it handles subclasses. So when you ask for a Red, well, clearly that's a subclass. But you don't want it to be a subclass. Paul Farquhar asked for character examples, and the first response was a real-life team coach. The main problem is that [I]the coach isn't playing the game[/I]. The [I]adventurers[/I] are the players on the field. In order to bring the coach in as a playable character/class, you have to figure out how to get the coach out on the field with the team. So that entire analogy kind of falls apart. This is the same as my example of the strategist in the castle. He may be a warlord, but he's not an adventurer. I gave my own example answers, and noted that every single one of them is really a subclass of another class, or a multiclass, or something similar. Warlord as a [I]character concept[/I] just doesn't seem to stand on its own. Warlord as a [I]mechanic[/I] easily stands on its own, because mechanics are character-agnostic. The problem is that the design of a class presumes it carries enough weight to be strongly used as a character concept. I'll go back and ask a variant on Paul's question: What fictional (or even real) character would you try to design that fits the following criteria: 1) Is a Warlord 2) Is not a Fighter 3) Is an adventurer (ie: not just the strategist who stays in the castle while the army goes out to fight, or the old man in the bar handing out quest hooks) Of those that qualify, which of them are not actually Rogue/Warlord, or Mage/Warlord, or Priest/Warlord, or Barbarian/Warlord? Remember, I'm asking for a [I]character[/I], not a collection of mechanics. I'm asking if you can be a new player wanting to a play a character like [XX], and find the best fit in the system to support said character is Warlord, and [I]only[/I] Warlord. Not being able to separate two classes of idea is not in itself 'wrong' or 'bad'. Gishes are the personification of that, mixing the magic user with the fighter. On the other hand, there is no class called 'Gish'. Closest analog of police is the city watch/city guard, which are your basic fighter/soldier types. Paramedic seems to map to alchemist/chemist/medic. A potentially non-magical supporter type, sure, but not a warlord. Rescue dog handler and lifeguard and first responders may also be non-magic supporters, but are, again, not warlords. That little 'war' part is kind of crucial. Lelouch does work, though. Leia also sort of does, though she also sort of doesn't fit [I]any[/I] character class. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord
Top