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Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7373245" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>This sounds like a critique that could be copied almost word for word regarding the 5e rogue concept.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I would love for it to be a subclass but it won't work being a subclass. Mike Mearls Warlord subclass will totally fail (it always does. kind of like superhero villain plots). It will either fail for hitting the right strength on warlord abilities but being too strong for a fighter subclass or it will fail for being balanced for a fighter subclass and thus not give enough strength to the various warlord abilities it has. Hopefully I'm wrong, but he has tried to give us warlordy features multiple times now in a fighter subclass and the ideas keep flopping.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. It's more of a team than a coach/player relationship. The reason coach/player gets brought up is more to illustrate healing abilities and such than it is to illustrate a full fledged warlord class. </p><p></p><p>I think for your best examples you will have to take a close look at war movies. Sometimes there's an order given that means almost certain death and there's that one team member (not always the one in charge either) that urges everyone on and helps them and provides sound tactical advice so much that the team leader usually listens to him. Sometimes he's even able to yell at comrades and have them get up and fight on. That's the kind of warlord we are looking for. Many times that character is the person in charge of the group as well. In those cases it's harder to separate out what we are talking about. But you'll find what you are looking for in war movies I think. I can't name any explicit examples off the top of my head.</p><p></p><p>With all this said, a warlord is almost always a fighting man of sorts. But the way he helps others fight better and longer is always he's defining trait. He doesn't have to be the most accurate, he doesn't have to kill the most enemy soldiers, he doesn't even have to be the team leader. He just has to help his allies fight better. Give them a reason for fighting on etc. This is opposed to the fighter whose defining trait is he's one the biggest bad@$$es around.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then rogues shouldn't exist. They aren't strong enough to stand on their own. Every d&d rogue is just a person that can fight decently well and is good at skills. A fighter subclass would have been sufficient. If rogues exist as their own class in the design space then so should warlords. If barbarians exists as their own class in the design space then so should warlords. </p><p></p><p>If D&D ever goes to a single fighting man class for everything then I'll back off and agree that warlord has no place as a class.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A soldier who excels at inspiring and giving tactical advice to his allies. Most often in stories warlords are the actual leaders and for good reason. But that's not always the case and since I know better than to provide an example of a warlord that's an authority figure (been there done that) then this is the best I can do at the moment</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>None. In 5e D&D Fighters, Barbarians and rogues are all capable fighting men. Why is it suddenly a problem to add in another fighting man class with some different mechanics?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The best examples that can be given are all characters that are in a position of leadership which are automatically disqualified from this discussion because you and others will always blame their abilities on their leadership position instead of their leadership position on their abilities.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Rogues and Barbarians are both examples of classes that were separated from fighter that are really fighter barbarians and fighter rogues. D&D fared just fine with those splits. You're not giving any reasons why a warlord is any different</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 7373245, member: 6795602"] This sounds like a critique that could be copied almost word for word regarding the 5e rogue concept. I would love for it to be a subclass but it won't work being a subclass. Mike Mearls Warlord subclass will totally fail (it always does. kind of like superhero villain plots). It will either fail for hitting the right strength on warlord abilities but being too strong for a fighter subclass or it will fail for being balanced for a fighter subclass and thus not give enough strength to the various warlord abilities it has. Hopefully I'm wrong, but he has tried to give us warlordy features multiple times now in a fighter subclass and the ideas keep flopping. Yes. It's more of a team than a coach/player relationship. The reason coach/player gets brought up is more to illustrate healing abilities and such than it is to illustrate a full fledged warlord class. I think for your best examples you will have to take a close look at war movies. Sometimes there's an order given that means almost certain death and there's that one team member (not always the one in charge either) that urges everyone on and helps them and provides sound tactical advice so much that the team leader usually listens to him. Sometimes he's even able to yell at comrades and have them get up and fight on. That's the kind of warlord we are looking for. Many times that character is the person in charge of the group as well. In those cases it's harder to separate out what we are talking about. But you'll find what you are looking for in war movies I think. I can't name any explicit examples off the top of my head. With all this said, a warlord is almost always a fighting man of sorts. But the way he helps others fight better and longer is always he's defining trait. He doesn't have to be the most accurate, he doesn't have to kill the most enemy soldiers, he doesn't even have to be the team leader. He just has to help his allies fight better. Give them a reason for fighting on etc. This is opposed to the fighter whose defining trait is he's one the biggest bad@$$es around. Then rogues shouldn't exist. They aren't strong enough to stand on their own. Every d&d rogue is just a person that can fight decently well and is good at skills. A fighter subclass would have been sufficient. If rogues exist as their own class in the design space then so should warlords. If barbarians exists as their own class in the design space then so should warlords. If D&D ever goes to a single fighting man class for everything then I'll back off and agree that warlord has no place as a class. A soldier who excels at inspiring and giving tactical advice to his allies. Most often in stories warlords are the actual leaders and for good reason. But that's not always the case and since I know better than to provide an example of a warlord that's an authority figure (been there done that) then this is the best I can do at the moment None. In 5e D&D Fighters, Barbarians and rogues are all capable fighting men. Why is it suddenly a problem to add in another fighting man class with some different mechanics? The best examples that can be given are all characters that are in a position of leadership which are automatically disqualified from this discussion because you and others will always blame their abilities on their leadership position instead of their leadership position on their abilities. Rogues and Barbarians are both examples of classes that were separated from fighter that are really fighter barbarians and fighter rogues. D&D fared just fine with those splits. You're not giving any reasons why a warlord is any different [/QUOTE]
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