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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 7673628" data-attributes="member: 2067">All this talk about &quot;power source&quot; and &quot;arcane magic&quot; and &quot;divine magic&quot; is 100% weapons-grade Older Edition Itis. These concepts have no intrinsic meaning in 5e's class design. Clerics and paladins or wizards and sorcerers don't tap the same &quot;power source&quot; or have the same &quot;kind of magic.&quot; They are entirely different and distinct traditions for doing supernatural things.Seriously, we need to stop talking about &quot;spellcasting&quot; and &quot;magic&quot; as if it's the same thing because in D&amp;D, it isn't. Many of the supernatural things these classes can do are united under the &quot;spellcasting&quot; mechanic. Spellcasting, as a mechanic, has a meaning in the fiction of D&amp;D - a sort of ritualistic combination of gestures, words, and occasional catalyst materials combined with a mental concentration unlocks the effects of a specific, known magical power. Spellcasting is a big mechanic, and it has its own rules, but it says nothing of the source of your magical power, only the way in which you tap into it. A sorcerer's fireball and a wizard's fireball aren't both arcane things, they're fundamentally different in the fiction of the world (one is based in knowledge, understanding, and secret lore; another based on instinct, nature, and internal power), even if the use of them would look pretty similar. A monk who uses burning hands actually looks a lot like those as well, but they'd say their power comes from training, dedication, and contemplation of elemental forces, not knowledge or inner power.These all use the spellcasting mechanic. None of these are the same &quot;power source.&quot;Spellcasting isn't the only way to use magical power in D&amp;D, either. A monk of 15th level does not age. This is clearly not a &quot;natural&quot; effect, but there's no spellcasting involved, no specific magical effect conjured up. A barbarian's rage might be &quot;martial&quot;, or it might be &quot;primal,&quot; or &quot;divine&quot; or even &quot;psionic&quot; depending on how you view the story of the barbarian. Psionics is magic, in the broadest, most inclusive sense of the term. It is clearly supernatural. It may or may not be spellcasting - particularly if you don't use discrete magical effects that rely on a moment of mental concentration and maybe a word, gesture, or catalyst, it probably shouldn't be spellcasting. Of course, this is what psionics was in 3e and 4e and to a certain degree in the pre-3e days as well, but put a pin in that - maybe we don't want it to be spellcasting now. In fact, all this talk of it being internal and self-powered makes it sound a lot like a sorcerer - &quot;inborn magic&quot; and the like. If we say that psionics is not spellcasting, this means that it is not a discrete magical effect created by a moment of concentration. It means psionics might resemble barbarian rages or battlemaster dice or skill checks or sneak attack or Action Surge or domain powers. If the flavor of psionics is &quot;it comes from within,&quot; how does that look in practice?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 7673628, member: 2067"] All this talk about "power source" and "arcane magic" and "divine magic" is 100% weapons-grade Older Edition Itis. These concepts have no intrinsic meaning in 5e's class design. Clerics and paladins or wizards and sorcerers don't tap the same "power source" or have the same "kind of magic." They are entirely different and distinct traditions for doing supernatural things. Seriously, we need to stop talking about "spellcasting" and "magic" as if it's the same thing because in D&D, it isn't. Many of the supernatural things these classes can do are united under the "spellcasting" mechanic. Spellcasting, as a mechanic, has a meaning in the fiction of D&D - a sort of ritualistic combination of gestures, words, and occasional catalyst materials combined with a mental concentration unlocks the effects of a specific, known magical power. Spellcasting is a big mechanic, and it has its own rules, but it says nothing of the [I]source[/I] of your magical power, only the way in which you tap into it. A sorcerer's [I]fireball[/I] and a wizard's [I]fireball[/I] aren't both arcane things, they're fundamentally different in the fiction of the world (one is based in knowledge, understanding, and secret lore; another based on instinct, nature, and internal power), even if the use of them would look pretty similar. A monk who uses [I]burning hands[/I] actually looks a lot like those as well, but they'd say their power comes from training, dedication, and contemplation of elemental forces, not knowledge or inner power. These all use the spellcasting mechanic. None of these are the same "power source." Spellcasting isn't the only way to use magical power in D&D, either. A monk of 15th level does not age. This is clearly not a "natural" effect, but there's no spellcasting involved, no specific magical effect conjured up. A barbarian's rage might be "martial", or it might be "primal," or "divine" or even "psionic" depending on how you view the story of the barbarian. Psionics [I]is magic[/I], in the broadest, most inclusive sense of the term. It is clearly supernatural. It may or may not be [I]spellcasting[/I] - particularly if you don't use discrete magical effects that rely on a moment of mental concentration and maybe a word, gesture, or catalyst, it probably [B]shouldn't[/B] be spellcasting. Of course, this is what psionics was in 3e and 4e and to a certain degree in the pre-3e days as well, but put a pin in that - maybe we don't want it to be spellcasting now. In fact, all this talk of it being internal and self-powered makes it sound a [I]lot[/I] like a sorcerer - "inborn magic" and the like. If we say that psionics [I]is not spellcasting[/I], this means that it is not a discrete magical effect created by a moment of concentration. It means psionics might resemble barbarian rages or battlemaster dice or skill checks or sneak attack or Action Surge or domain powers. If the flavor of psionics is "it comes from within," how does that look in practice? [/QUOTE]

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