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Message: <blockquote data-quote="bogmad" data-source="post: 7673656" data-attributes="member: 6695559">Oh, it's total semantics, but the point is that for some of us "indistinguishable from magic" in the game's sense does not mean the same thing as "magic." I know it's frustrating for some that I must have a different definition of "magic" that to most people is indistinguishable from it, but it's also frustrating to hear "IT'S CLEARLY MAGIC, DUMMY." Not to me. Why? Just cuz. And then it turns into some yelling match where I then end up like Walter in the Big Lebowski, muttering "Calmer than you are" under my breath to the Dude.Ok, slightly more thought out than "just because":Magic for me is pretty much either Arcane or Divine, with weird exceptions like monk abilities that I'm fine being ambivalent with. Psionics is not Arcane or Divine, so therefore it's something else. In fact, I even like leaving it in this weird undefined category where the only thing I can say for certain about it is that it's not magic. It's not useful at all to argue about. You said so yourself:I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLYbut then you go ahead and say in the same sentence what keeps setting the argument into useless pontificating I'm doing now:In fact, the defining trait of it for me is that it's not magic. Sure, it acts a lot and looks a lot like magic, but that's part of the fun of it. And I can totally see how that makes some peoples heads explode in nerdrage [inside and outside of the fiction], but that can be fun too.[added] And as you've shown, we can have some substantive discussions on what good mechanics might be for psionics are regardless of what side of the "magic/not magic" divide we fall on.  I just want something that works for both positions instead of "it's magic, so lets make it work like magic does: with spellcasting exactly like these other classes do"</blockquote>

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