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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7673966" data-attributes="member: 996">There were 54 warlord powers that healed, 17 that granted temps, and another 16 that removed conditions or granted saves. There were 32 warlord powers that re-positioned allies. 34 warlord powers modified attack rolls or defenses.  Even if you completely discount the value of the 32 powers in question, that still leaves just over 300 warlord powers.  And, there's no reason tactical movement couldn't be modeled in other ways, for TotM. Any power that let an ally shift, for instance, could get him out of an enemy's threatened area, which is equivalent of Disengaging.  Not a useless thing, in 5e, letting an ally disengage without blowing his action on it. They might translate with slightly smaller numbers (most leader buffs didn't add large bonuses to hit, because the 4e treadmill was as sensitive to excessive bonuses as Bounded Accuracy is - in both cases, even a +1 is meaningful).  Some might give advantage instead of a bonus to hit.  Damage bonuses are still legit under bounded accuracy.Even if you do want to discount them, the warlord had 20 attack bonus powers, 14 defense bonus powers- that might impact Bounded Accuracy - if we ignore that such powers impacted 4e's tight math at least as much as they would BA, and 18 not-so-relevant-to-bounded-accuracy damage buff powers. Healing (54 powers), attack granting (40), temp hps (17), condition mitigating (16), condition imposing (15), etc..    But, I don't believe you lose buff/debuff.  That's still going on in 5e.  A lot of attack and defense bonuses might get tossed onto the Advantage/Disadvantage pile, but that doesn't obviate the buff/debuff function of 'leader' type classes. You strip out the battle-map-dependent movement powers from the Warlord, he's still a leader with 300 powers.  The Battlemaster is a Striker with 18 maneuvers, 3 of which do things the Warlord did.   Not even close.  And the DMG options did expand the use of the grid, so even if we buy that losing 32 of 334 powers cripples the concept for PH inclusion, it's still good as tactical-module option.13th Age weaned itself off the grid even more successfully than 5e, and was able to add the Commander class, which does only /some/ of what the 4e Warlord did. I disagree with a lot of what you said, above, but I'm also OK with the idea of a psionic sub-class (or several).  That could be in addition to a full class psion, of course.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Reasonable conclusion.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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