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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7519125" data-attributes="member: 6696971">4e adjudication of using Thunderwave to throw a target through a wall of timbers is as follows:1) Follow genre logic. Is this genre appropriate for Tier. If so, then...2) Blocking Terrain and the player is looking to turn it into a Hindering Terrain:Arcana Check vs Medium or High DC for Level depending on Effect sought by player (failure inducing some kind of negative consequence for the “recoil”; At-Will status effect, perhaps Slide 2, CA or Prone UEoYNT)Success = Hindering Terrain Effect. Save to be Prone right outside. Difficult Terrain in the squares formerly occupied by the wall. If failed, Prone inside of the DT and 3/6/9 (Tier) damage if you end turn in the Hindering Terrain.Before you improv any sort of terrain effects, the issues with 5e regarding just the DC setting portion is layered:1)  Objective Causal Logic or Subjective Genre Logic? 5e’s designers give reasons to believe that it’s supposed to be some sort of mash-up of both (you have the Tier Section that indicates Genre, but virtually every other bit of Guidance and design impetus - “natural language” - suggests Causal. Individual GMs are all over the place on this question, including seemingly arbitrarily using one over the other as the moment takes them.2) If Objective Causal Logic, who is the baseline for the Easy, Hard et al descriptors; everyday layman, someone proficient in the task, a professional adventurer? Again, GMs are all over the map on this and I’ve seen it change depending upon the task/test.1 and 2 above do not make for minimizing mental overhead and handling time at the table, nor is it a recipe for consistency in mediating creative action declarations like the above. This is before navigating Action Economy concerns or establishing Terrain Effects (where 5e isn’t exactly robust!).I’ve navigated dozens upon dozens upon dozens of Terrain Stunts via Forced Movement in 4e. I’ve navigated 3ish (that I can recall) for the Diviner and Fighter I’ve GMed in 5e. It’s much more difficult to coherently/consistently adjudicate and less robust in 5e vs the same action declaration in 4e.The designers could have reversed that by (a) saying outright “USE GENRE LOGIC” for your DCs and (b) here is a robust list of standard terrain effects and their effective level. Sorting out the cost or complicationon failure is the least intrusive and most intuitive (and often most fun part of) part of GMing so guidance on that need not be significant.</blockquote>

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