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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7519359" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I said that if the most memorable RPG moments result from ignoring the system then the system is not fit for purpose. You replied that, if that's my view, I should play a computer game - that is, a game in which fiction is irrelevant to action declaration or resolution. (It's all just maths.)</p><p></p><p>That response would only make sense if one assumed that <em>system</em> and <em>fiction</em> must be separate things. Which is true in AD&D and 5e combat resolution, but not true of RPG systems in general.</p><p></p><p>Mine. Which is the only relevant one, given that you were suggesting I should engage my RPGing preferences by playing it while talking along in funny voices.</p><p></p><p>You posted the following:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p></p><p>The two claims here that I responded to are (1) that if system provides the best RPGing moments, it's like a board game; (2) if system provides the best RPGing moments, the exerpience will be flat/samey.</p><p></p><p>Now I assume that <em>you</em> don't think that <em>your</em> RPGing is (i) like a board game and (ii) samey. Hence I assume that in your RPGing the best moments don't come from the system. (If they did, yet (i) and (ii) were false for you, then you would be a counter-example to what you posted. Which would make your posting insincere. I am assuming that it is sincere.)</p><p></p><p>Which is what I posted: <em>you don't play a game where the system provides the best moments</em>. If you're now turning around and telling me that I'm wrong, and that you <em>do</em> play RPGs in which the system provides the best moments, then either in those games the experience is samey and boardgame like, or else you <em>were</em> being insincere in your earlier post.</p><p></p><p>As for what RPGs you've played, I've read you posting on this in the past but don't remember. But I'm assuming you haven't played (say) Dungeon World or other PbtA games; or Fate; or Burning Wheel; or HeroWars/Quest - to name a few. Because if you had played those then you would know that a RPG in which system provides the best moments is nothing like a boardgame. And you would have had experiences that weren't all flat/samey.</p><p></p><p>(There are two other possibilities. One is that you've played those games, or ones like them, and <em>did</em> find them boardgame-like. In my experience that would make you an extreme outlier, but there's no accounting for taste! A second is that when, in your earlier post, you said <em>mechanics</em> you were meaning to contrast that in some fashion with <em>system</em>. But given that you quoted a post by me that used the word <em>system</em> and began by saying "I couldn't disagree more" and then went on to express your disagreement using the word <em>mechanics</em>, I am assuming that you are using those two words interchangably.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7519359, member: 42582"] I said that if the most memorable RPG moments result from ignoring the system then the system is not fit for purpose. You replied that, if that's my view, I should play a computer game - that is, a game in which fiction is irrelevant to action declaration or resolution. (It's all just maths.) That response would only make sense if one assumed that [I]system[/I] and [I]fiction[/I] must be separate things. Which is true in AD&D and 5e combat resolution, but not true of RPG systems in general. Mine. Which is the only relevant one, given that you were suggesting I should engage my RPGing preferences by playing it while talking along in funny voices. You posted the following: [indent][/indent] The two claims here that I responded to are (1) that if system provides the best RPGing moments, it's like a board game; (2) if system provides the best RPGing moments, the exerpience will be flat/samey. Now I assume that [I]you[/I] don't think that [I]your[/I] RPGing is (i) like a board game and (ii) samey. Hence I assume that in your RPGing the best moments don't come from the system. (If they did, yet (i) and (ii) were false for you, then you would be a counter-example to what you posted. Which would make your posting insincere. I am assuming that it is sincere.) Which is what I posted: [I]you don't play a game where the system provides the best moments[/I]. If you're now turning around and telling me that I'm wrong, and that you [I]do[/I] play RPGs in which the system provides the best moments, then either in those games the experience is samey and boardgame like, or else you [I]were[/I] being insincere in your earlier post. As for what RPGs you've played, I've read you posting on this in the past but don't remember. But I'm assuming you haven't played (say) Dungeon World or other PbtA games; or Fate; or Burning Wheel; or HeroWars/Quest - to name a few. Because if you had played those then you would know that a RPG in which system provides the best moments is nothing like a boardgame. And you would have had experiences that weren't all flat/samey. (There are two other possibilities. One is that you've played those games, or ones like them, and [I]did[/I] find them boardgame-like. In my experience that would make you an extreme outlier, but there's no accounting for taste! A second is that when, in your earlier post, you said [I]mechanics[/I] you were meaning to contrast that in some fashion with [I]system[/I]. But given that you quoted a post by me that used the word [I]system[/I] and began by saying "I couldn't disagree more" and then went on to express your disagreement using the word [I]mechanics[/I], I am assuming that you are using those two words interchangably.) [/QUOTE]
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