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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 7519367" data-attributes="member: 82504">4e didnt have the cellar door problem because you weren't ever impaired in any significant way at paragon or higher by something described in the same fashion as a heroic tier obstacles "as a mayors cellar door" the fiction advanced and abandoned the old obstacles just like the DCs did on that chart you would be getting a Kings Vault in paragon and something insane in Epic. If you did run into the cellar door you wouldnt likely be asked to roll nor would it actually be a plot point.  I think its fine to be certain it can show real advancement when you stop worrying about them cellar doors even the iron bound ones.RuneQuest combat comes to mind with regards to uncertainty not necessarily being appropriate the uncertainty of defense -- every attack could be a bit like a save or die. The effect was you really didnt feel at all heroic.</blockquote>