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D&D Older Editions
Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7520039" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>Or the DM could rule that the Athletics check is relevant to the check (since it's presumed being trained in Athletics would help one in endurance training) then the Check drops to a 16 or higher... not easy but doable. Another approach is that the DM could rule that this is a task that no mortal could do and not allow a check. Or the DM could rule that only PC's in epic tier can do it and for them it's a hard difficulty of DC 20, allow Athletics and now they need only roll a 10 or higher. The point is when making the decision on the approach to this, the DM and players (since I'm assuming they suggested performing the action) are setting the genre, tropes, feel, etc. of their campaign. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But that's assuming I want that feel in my game. That's what people mean when they say 4e pushed/forced/catered to a particular playstyle. For some sticking their hands in the forge will be epic and mythical for other DM's doing something like that without magical aid is too gonzo and feels silly for their particular campaign. with the 5e approach it's modular depending on how the DM chooses to rule it and, as long as the DM is consistent should be fine.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're missing an important point about 5e... the system also relies on the DM's own judgement for their particular campaign to decide whether their group does anything from wholly embracing objective DC's to using subjective DC's dependent on tier. That's the philosophy behind 5e that you seem intent on ignoring. It's not a system to be played in a vacuum that assumes it knows what's best for you and your players. It's a system of guidelines to be used by the group to achieve the result they want.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: You seem to want a one size fits all solution to what can a 15th level fighter do that a 1st level fighter can's when the truth is 5e doesn't give that to you. It gives your group systems to resolve that question but leaves the application up to your particular group. Now you may see that as a bug but I see it as a feature... one I think, while often overlooked, contributes a great deal to 5e's astounding popularity and acceptance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 7520039, member: 48965"] Or the DM could rule that the Athletics check is relevant to the check (since it's presumed being trained in Athletics would help one in endurance training) then the Check drops to a 16 or higher... not easy but doable. Another approach is that the DM could rule that this is a task that no mortal could do and not allow a check. Or the DM could rule that only PC's in epic tier can do it and for them it's a hard difficulty of DC 20, allow Athletics and now they need only roll a 10 or higher. The point is when making the decision on the approach to this, the DM and players (since I'm assuming they suggested performing the action) are setting the genre, tropes, feel, etc. of their campaign. But that's assuming I want that feel in my game. That's what people mean when they say 4e pushed/forced/catered to a particular playstyle. For some sticking their hands in the forge will be epic and mythical for other DM's doing something like that without magical aid is too gonzo and feels silly for their particular campaign. with the 5e approach it's modular depending on how the DM chooses to rule it and, as long as the DM is consistent should be fine. You're missing an important point about 5e... the system also relies on the DM's own judgement for their particular campaign to decide whether their group does anything from wholly embracing objective DC's to using subjective DC's dependent on tier. That's the philosophy behind 5e that you seem intent on ignoring. It's not a system to be played in a vacuum that assumes it knows what's best for you and your players. It's a system of guidelines to be used by the group to achieve the result they want. EDIT: You seem to want a one size fits all solution to what can a 15th level fighter do that a 1st level fighter can's when the truth is 5e doesn't give that to you. It gives your group systems to resolve that question but leaves the application up to your particular group. Now you may see that as a bug but I see it as a feature... one I think, while often overlooked, contributes a great deal to 5e's astounding popularity and acceptance. [/QUOTE]
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