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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 7521517" data-attributes="member: 957">Can you show me these many?  I don't think you can.I think you are in this place completely guilty of doing what 4E fans routinely accuse its critics of.  That being, you are calling out one thing and then framing that as how "those guys" do things."Natural Armor" is a HUUUGE handwave.   Big dinosaurs are also good at getting out the the way of fireballs because they have REF saves tied to their HD.There are major warts in places of 3E.  I have never, ever, heard anybody celebrate those warts "as a simulation".     The system as a complete system *IS* very much celebrated as a embrace of simulation.  But in the end it remains a practical game.  These imperfections exist and are either simply accepted and ignored or, in some case, house-ruled around.  If you want to talk about natural AC in a vacuum then, yes, it is a complete failure of simulation.  There are certainly specific cases where it makes sense.  But those are solidly the exception.But they are sacrifices to practicality in a system that truly makes an overall effort toward "simulation".  And, I agree with Jester David, the edition wars are over.  The marketplace had its say.  So no need to dwell on that.  But, cherry picking a specific issue and then claiming that people you disagree with celebrate *that issue* is wrong, unjust and unfair.</blockquote>