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Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7521745" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I talked about <em>how it is that we know a 1st level fighter can't beat a pit fiend</em>. In 4e, as I said, I know that from the fiction - a character at the bottom of the Heroic Tier is not going to succeed in the sorts of adventures that are described (in the PHB and DMG) as pertaining to Paragon and Epic Tier heroes. Eg from p 29 of the PHB:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">In the epic tier . . . [y]ou navigate otherworldly realms and explore neverbefore-seen caverns of wonder, where you can expect to battle savage pit fiends . . .</p><p></p><p>Whereas p 28 tells us that, in the heroic tier,</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">The fate of a village might hang on the success or failure of your adventures, to say nothing of the risk to your own life. You navigate dangerous terrain and explore haunted crypts, where you can expect to fight sneaky goblins, savage orcs, ferocious wolves, giant spiders, evil cultists, and bloodthirsty ghouls.</p><p></p><p>Such a person has no hope against a pit fiend.</p><p></p><p>You asked "what would you do in 4e with a 1st level PC attempting to strike a Pit Fiend?" And I answered that I can't imagine it coming up. Therefore I don't need a theory of how to resolve that action declaration. But I don't need such a theory to know that the 1st level fighter would have no hope, as the fiction tells me that.</p><p></p><p>I will repost LostSoul's post that makes this point as clearly as I believe it can be made, about the sequence of fiction and mechanics in 4e compared to other editions (he focuses particularly on 3E, but I think the point generalises):</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But is the legendary status part of the fiction? Or just a device. In 4e solo status is just a device, for ensuring that the mechanics match the fiction which is known <em>independently of the mechanics</em>. That's whty the very same pit fiend can be statted as a solo or an elite, depending on the level of character opposing it. And why the very same goblin can be statted as a standard, a minion, or subsumed into a swarm.</p><p></p><p>So what is the appropiate DC for a non-cbombat hallenge that is "tiered" to be feasible for a 15th level fighter but is out of the question for a 1st level one?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7521745, member: 42582"] I talked about [I]how it is that we know a 1st level fighter can't beat a pit fiend[/I]. In 4e, as I said, I know that from the fiction - a character at the bottom of the Heroic Tier is not going to succeed in the sorts of adventures that are described (in the PHB and DMG) as pertaining to Paragon and Epic Tier heroes. Eg from p 29 of the PHB: [indent]In the epic tier . . . [y]ou navigate otherworldly realms and explore neverbefore-seen caverns of wonder, where you can expect to battle savage pit fiends . . .[/indent] Whereas p 28 tells us that, in the heroic tier, [indent]The fate of a village might hang on the success or failure of your adventures, to say nothing of the risk to your own life. You navigate dangerous terrain and explore haunted crypts, where you can expect to fight sneaky goblins, savage orcs, ferocious wolves, giant spiders, evil cultists, and bloodthirsty ghouls.[/indent] Such a person has no hope against a pit fiend. You asked "what would you do in 4e with a 1st level PC attempting to strike a Pit Fiend?" And I answered that I can't imagine it coming up. Therefore I don't need a theory of how to resolve that action declaration. But I don't need such a theory to know that the 1st level fighter would have no hope, as the fiction tells me that. I will repost LostSoul's post that makes this point as clearly as I believe it can be made, about the sequence of fiction and mechanics in 4e compared to other editions (he focuses particularly on 3E, but I think the point generalises): But is the legendary status part of the fiction? Or just a device. In 4e solo status is just a device, for ensuring that the mechanics match the fiction which is known [I]independently of the mechanics[/I]. That's whty the very same pit fiend can be statted as a solo or an elite, depending on the level of character opposing it. And why the very same goblin can be statted as a standard, a minion, or subsumed into a swarm. So what is the appropiate DC for a non-cbombat hallenge that is "tiered" to be feasible for a 15th level fighter but is out of the question for a 1st level one? [/QUOTE]
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