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<blockquote data-quote="rmcoen" data-source="post: 7521875" data-attributes="member: 6692404">This is an excellent example, to which you can easily add villains (Bullseye, Deadshot), medieval figures (Robin Hood), and Greek Epics (Odysseus), and so on.&nbsp; Many many stories are &quot;good brawn vs. evil magic&quot;.&nbsp; Many stories involving Knights are might-makes-right, and magic (or even archery) is &quot;cheating&quot;.&nbsp; Wait, where was I going with this...As a GM and a player, I want the person playing the fighter to have as many options at his or her command as the person playing the wizard.&nbsp; in 3e, that was provided by Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tome_of_Battle:_The_Book_of_Nine_Swords" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tome_of_Battle:_The_Book_of_Nine_Swords</a>).&nbsp; 4e built it into the system, and I loved it.&nbsp; The Iron Heroes rule system had a similar concept, one since mirrored by Pathfinder's giving most classes &quot;Talents&quot; so they can diverge internally from others, and have cool things they can do.&nbsp; IMC, the warforged fighter is an axe-and-shield juggernaut, shoving (or luring) foes around the field and physically tossing his allies to safer locations.&nbsp; The ranger is all about moving himself or his enemies around, switching fluidly between swords and his bow as needs change, and occasionally pinning them in place for the fighter to beat on.&nbsp; The cleric functions more as a &quot;warlord&quot; healing and doing minimal damage, but tagging the next enemy for the warriors to kill.&nbsp; And the two wizards merrily blast things and screw up my battlefield with control spells.&nbsp; Everyone has *several* somethings fun and interesting to do.&nbsp; One player has actually stated that his favorite part of playing the game is when he does something creative - not because he was creative, but because he loves the inevitable &gt;sigh&lt; that escapes me as I realize my plans or neat encounter or BBEG power have just been foiled or neutralized.In previous editions, the fighter says &quot;I hit it.&nbsp; Wait, I'm 16th level... I swing 4 times, I hit it twice.&quot;&nbsp; The ranger says &quot;I shoot it.&quot;&nbsp; The cleric says &quot;Anyone need healing?&nbsp; No?&nbsp; Okay, I hit it.&quot;&nbsp; The wizards then spend 30 minutes pondering which of their 30 spells is most appropriate to the situation.&nbsp; [Yes, I know, a well-played cleric has the same potential spell choices.]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="rmcoen, post: 7521875, member: 6692404"] This is an excellent example, to which you can easily add villains (Bullseye, Deadshot), medieval figures (Robin Hood), and Greek Epics (Odysseus), and so on. Many many stories are "good brawn vs. evil magic". Many stories involving Knights are might-makes-right, and magic (or even archery) is "cheating". Wait, where was I going with this... As a GM and a player, I want the person playing the fighter to have as many options at his or her command as the person playing the wizard. in 3e, that was provided by Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tome_of_Battle:_The_Book_of_Nine_Swords[/url]). 4e built it into the system, and I loved it. The Iron Heroes rule system had a similar concept, one since mirrored by Pathfinder's giving most classes "Talents" so they can diverge internally from others, and have cool things they can do. IMC, the warforged fighter is an axe-and-shield juggernaut, shoving (or luring) foes around the field and physically tossing his allies to safer locations. The ranger is all about moving himself or his enemies around, switching fluidly between swords and his bow as needs change, and occasionally pinning them in place for the fighter to beat on. The cleric functions more as a "warlord" healing and doing minimal damage, but tagging the next enemy for the warriors to kill. And the two wizards merrily blast things and screw up my battlefield with control spells. Everyone has *several* somethings fun and interesting to do. One player has actually stated that his favorite part of playing the game is when he does something creative - not because he was creative, but because he loves the inevitable >sigh< that escapes me as I realize my plans or neat encounter or BBEG power have just been foiled or neutralized. In previous editions, the fighter says "I hit it. Wait, I'm 16th level... I swing 4 times, I hit it twice." The ranger says "I shoot it." The cleric says "Anyone need healing? No? Okay, I hit it." The wizards then spend 30 minutes pondering which of their 30 spells is most appropriate to the situation. [Yes, I know, a well-played cleric has the same potential spell choices.] [/QUOTE]

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