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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Mike Mearls on how 4E could have looked
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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 7522803" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>In short, the solutions that 1e presents to the problems it inadvertently also helped create are antiquated to more contemporaneous game design mores. Uneven leveling between classes, for example, would be regarded as anathematic given its persistent absence in 3-5e or the common use of milestone leveling. Or likewise the "super weak now for super strong later" model for wizards also does not hold much water given current playmodes that rarely exceed 8th level. So though you may naturally disagree given your own valid play preferences, I do not think that looking to 1e is necessarily the best way to go about addressing these issues for the current gaming Zeitgeist. </p><p></p><p>As for possible solutions? I hesitate to say. Numerous possible solutions exist, especially given how other systems tackle the problem, but whether those solutions would be palpable for D&D's fanbase is another matter entirely. </p><p></p><p>As 4e and the reception of D&D attests, people gleefully accept power expansions for wizards but are reluctant to give them up. 5e did manage to do so, but it benefited from being perceived as a return to normal from 4e, even as it curtailed the excesses of 3e. But I also don't think that 4e's proposed solutions to the problem should be dismissed so easily merely for being part of 4e. Especially given how some of these issues that plagued the reception of 4e were a matter of packaging and presentation rather than content. Furthermore, while tradition is one of D&D's greatest strengths, it also makes it incredibly intractable to change. This is especially true for the spells, spell tiers, and such that have become iconic for wizards and the like. Could you imagine D&D if spellcasting only went to fifth level spells? Or a considerably smaller available spell list? And regarding fighters? My own experience has sadly taught me that people are remarkably hesitant to let fighters have cool and fantastic things. Epic wizards can rewrite the cosmos, but epic fighters are rarely afforded their own mythic class fantasies. </p><p></p><p>Unserious Brainstorming: One could potentially scale back spells. Beyond the Wall makes spell slots equal to Mage level, going to level 10. Every spell cast costs one slot. (It also uses cantrips and rituals.) If one wanted to preserve spell levels in D&D, one could then propose that a similar system in D&D could have a 2nd level spell cost two slots, a 3rd level spell cost three slots, and so on. You could even choose to scale spells to raise the power level. This seems like a mix of spell lots and a mana pool system. Adjust a possible max number of spell slots for what you find most appropriate. So if you followed the BtW model of spells caster per day equals to class level, then a presumably level 20 character could cast two level 9 spells per day, but not have too much afterwards. But you could then provide the wizard with more sagely in-game utility and such that is not purely magical. Though D&D likes having the wizard as a magical badass, it does not really capture the sage well apart from "you have the appropriate Arcana skill."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 7522803, member: 5142"] In short, the solutions that 1e presents to the problems it inadvertently also helped create are antiquated to more contemporaneous game design mores. Uneven leveling between classes, for example, would be regarded as anathematic given its persistent absence in 3-5e or the common use of milestone leveling. Or likewise the "super weak now for super strong later" model for wizards also does not hold much water given current playmodes that rarely exceed 8th level. So though you may naturally disagree given your own valid play preferences, I do not think that looking to 1e is necessarily the best way to go about addressing these issues for the current gaming Zeitgeist. As for possible solutions? I hesitate to say. Numerous possible solutions exist, especially given how other systems tackle the problem, but whether those solutions would be palpable for D&D's fanbase is another matter entirely. As 4e and the reception of D&D attests, people gleefully accept power expansions for wizards but are reluctant to give them up. 5e did manage to do so, but it benefited from being perceived as a return to normal from 4e, even as it curtailed the excesses of 3e. But I also don't think that 4e's proposed solutions to the problem should be dismissed so easily merely for being part of 4e. Especially given how some of these issues that plagued the reception of 4e were a matter of packaging and presentation rather than content. Furthermore, while tradition is one of D&D's greatest strengths, it also makes it incredibly intractable to change. This is especially true for the spells, spell tiers, and such that have become iconic for wizards and the like. Could you imagine D&D if spellcasting only went to fifth level spells? Or a considerably smaller available spell list? And regarding fighters? My own experience has sadly taught me that people are remarkably hesitant to let fighters have cool and fantastic things. Epic wizards can rewrite the cosmos, but epic fighters are rarely afforded their own mythic class fantasies. Unserious Brainstorming: One could potentially scale back spells. Beyond the Wall makes spell slots equal to Mage level, going to level 10. Every spell cast costs one slot. (It also uses cantrips and rituals.) If one wanted to preserve spell levels in D&D, one could then propose that a similar system in D&D could have a 2nd level spell cost two slots, a 3rd level spell cost three slots, and so on. You could even choose to scale spells to raise the power level. This seems like a mix of spell lots and a mana pool system. Adjust a possible max number of spell slots for what you find most appropriate. So if you followed the BtW model of spells caster per day equals to class level, then a presumably level 20 character could cast two level 9 spells per day, but not have too much afterwards. But you could then provide the wizard with more sagely in-game utility and such that is not purely magical. Though D&D likes having the wizard as a magical badass, it does not really capture the sage well apart from "you have the appropriate Arcana skill." [/QUOTE]
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