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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 7524423" data-attributes="member: 957">Page 42 of the DMG gives an example involving swinging on a chandelier and clearly demonstrates that the DC of this task is a function of the character's level and has nothing to do with the chandelier.&nbsp; According to the DMG a higher level character would need a higher check to swing from that chandelier and a lower level character would need a lower number.Now, it is easy to conclude that no decent DM would ever blindly apply this to wooden doors.&nbsp; So there becomes a point of debate over intent.&nbsp; But the RAW is completely clear.&nbsp; And, keep in mind that 4E was over and over praised for being &quot;easy to DM&quot; and &quot;good for new DMs&quot;.&nbsp; I have no doubt in my mind that there were inexperienced DMs out there who simply looked at p42, followed the instructions and changed the DC of the door purely based on mechanics and rules.I'm also sure that there were times when DMs semi-blindly used page 42 with a &quot;this is a particularly well built door&quot;.&nbsp; And in the general it is hard to be critical of this, but if the DC is know before any other details are known (mechanics before fiction) then it can quickly get silly to have a &quot;particularly well built door&quot; in every burnt out shack because the party level calls for it.Again, I totally get that quality DMs would see this as no issue.&nbsp; There are warts on 3E that quality DMs can easily work around.&nbsp; So this topic is really a draw in &quot;the edition wars&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp; But it is on a long list of items in 4E that led to the overall marketplace acceptance being what 4E was rather than what &quot;4e could have been&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 7524423, member: 957"] Page 42 of the DMG gives an example involving swinging on a chandelier and clearly demonstrates that the DC of this task is a function of the character's level and has nothing to do with the chandelier. According to the DMG a higher level character would need a higher check to swing from that chandelier and a lower level character would need a lower number. Now, it is easy to conclude that no decent DM would ever blindly apply this to wooden doors. So there becomes a point of debate over intent. But the RAW is completely clear. And, keep in mind that 4E was over and over praised for being "easy to DM" and "good for new DMs". I have no doubt in my mind that there were inexperienced DMs out there who simply looked at p42, followed the instructions and changed the DC of the door purely based on mechanics and rules. I'm also sure that there were times when DMs semi-blindly used page 42 with a "this is a particularly well built door". And in the general it is hard to be critical of this, but if the DC is know before any other details are known (mechanics before fiction) then it can quickly get silly to have a "particularly well built door" in every burnt out shack because the party level calls for it. Again, I totally get that quality DMs would see this as no issue. There are warts on 3E that quality DMs can easily work around. So this topic is really a draw in "the edition wars". But it is on a long list of items in 4E that led to the overall marketplace acceptance being what 4E was rather than what "4e could have been". [/QUOTE]

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