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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7526105" data-attributes="member: 42582">Luckily no RPG book ever published has said that.The 4e books says that (1) epic tier PCs should be interacting with stuff of great cosmological significance, and (2) that if that stuff invovles doors (eg the gate to Carceri, in my own 4e game) then those doors will be some of the hardest to get through that exist in the cosmos.It doesn't say much about burned out shacks, but it does imply that (1) for epic tier PCs, burned out shacks typically won't loom large on the list of challenges, and (2) if an epic tier PC has to get through the door of a burned out shack, that won't be very hard and probably won't require a check. It will be mere colour.If, in fact, you play a 4e game in which epic tier PCs come to burned out shacks and you (i) want that the door of said shack to matter in play and yet (ii) don't want to break verisimilitude, then you're stuck. Now personally I think you're stuck in AD&D too - no party of 15th level AD&D PCs that I can conceive of is going to have a verisimilitudinous burned-out-shack-door matter in play (and I've never seen a module written for high level PCs which used a burned out shack door as an important obstacle).Likewise in 3E - a 15th level fighter will have the STR to trivialise the door of a burned out shack, a 15 level rogue the skills, and a 15h level caster the spells.But if you solved this problem in AD&D and 3E, and found some way to make doors of burned out shacks both matter in play and yet versimilitudinously flimsy, then maybe the same solution would Two things.(1) As [MENTION=12749]MwaO[/MENTION] has pointed out (if I've understood properly), the DC for the swing is to make a successful combat move, not to practice your acrobatics. Using your acrobatic trickery to make a successful move against Orcus is harder than it is against an ogre.(2) I think you've missed the larger point. 4e is built on the assumption that the rogue won't be swinging from the same chandelier. The very clear advice on the tiers of play - found both in the PHB (addressed to players) and the DMG (addresed to GMs) - includes the idea that, as PCs progress through the tiers, so the locations where they engage in dramatic deeds also change.A GM who set out to use the door of a burned out shack as a challenge for a demigod; who frames demigods into chandelier-laden challenges against ogres; who has the braziers in Orcus's throne  room no different from those in the chieftain's longhall (as opposed to, say, demon skulls filled with darkfire that inflicts both necrotic and fire damage), etc, is disregarding the advice. It won't necessarily break the game, but it will require reworking the fiction - because the default (as presented in the PHB and the MMs) follows the advice on the tiers of play.</blockquote>

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