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<blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 7081775" data-attributes="member: 57112"><p>That's just it though, isn't it? The easiest way to describe Greyhawk is "Take FR and remove <list of things that annoy me about FR>". </p><p></p><p>It's Forgotten Realms, but all the expies are of Conan instead of Aragorn.</p><p></p><p>Sure, the <em>tone</em> is different, but tone is not inseparable from setting. You can run gritty, morally gray S&S in FR just as you can just epic high fantasy in GH. You can do swashbuckling action and ancient (and recent) conspiracy pile-ups in both too. The other main difference seems to be GH's general lack of lore and world knowledge that keeps it mysterious (and seems rather at odds with demands for more setting material...) </p><p></p><p>In a setting with a metaplot that actually advances (see: FR), an updated campaign guide for a new edition makes a certain kind of sense. The setting has been shaken up; how has that changed things since the last time I bought that guide?</p><p></p><p>In a setting without that, a new campaign guide is needed mostly only to conform setting-specific rules to the new edition. And I have to question what that means for Greyhawk. We don't need a campaign guide with tips and guidelines on how to run Sword & Sorcery vs. High Fantasy (the DMG already does that, though how successful it was is in the eye of the beholder). We don't really need a new gazetteer that's filled with old information that hasn't changed. All such a thing would be useful for is rules.</p><p></p><p>But what rules? The only concrete list of "rules updates" for Greyhawk I've seen so far could have essentially boiled down to "...and instead of playing 5e, play OD&D". We don't really need an OSR version of 5e. And here's the ultimate rub: even if we did need (and actually got) such a thing, it would in no way actually be setting specific. Greyhawk does not have ownership over old-school holdovers like stronghold building rules and racial & alignment class limitations.</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, WotC has a whole pile of settings that could actually use rule updates (and in one case, <em>better</em> rule updates). Races, classes, equipment, spells, and other rules changes (dragonmarks, defiling/preserving, portals, magic moons, etc.) Stronghold building rules would be nice, but I fail to see how that would be either essential or unique to GH.</p><p></p><p>I'm curious what people who want this actually want it to include/have, and how that would be unique to a Greyhawk Campaign Setting book (or UA article).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gradine, post: 7081775, member: 57112"] That's just it though, isn't it? The easiest way to describe Greyhawk is "Take FR and remove <list of things that annoy me about FR>". It's Forgotten Realms, but all the expies are of Conan instead of Aragorn. Sure, the [I]tone[/I] is different, but tone is not inseparable from setting. You can run gritty, morally gray S&S in FR just as you can just epic high fantasy in GH. You can do swashbuckling action and ancient (and recent) conspiracy pile-ups in both too. The other main difference seems to be GH's general lack of lore and world knowledge that keeps it mysterious (and seems rather at odds with demands for more setting material...) In a setting with a metaplot that actually advances (see: FR), an updated campaign guide for a new edition makes a certain kind of sense. The setting has been shaken up; how has that changed things since the last time I bought that guide? In a setting without that, a new campaign guide is needed mostly only to conform setting-specific rules to the new edition. And I have to question what that means for Greyhawk. We don't need a campaign guide with tips and guidelines on how to run Sword & Sorcery vs. High Fantasy (the DMG already does that, though how successful it was is in the eye of the beholder). We don't really need a new gazetteer that's filled with old information that hasn't changed. All such a thing would be useful for is rules. But what rules? The only concrete list of "rules updates" for Greyhawk I've seen so far could have essentially boiled down to "...and instead of playing 5e, play OD&D". We don't really need an OSR version of 5e. And here's the ultimate rub: even if we did need (and actually got) such a thing, it would in no way actually be setting specific. Greyhawk does not have ownership over old-school holdovers like stronghold building rules and racial & alignment class limitations. Meanwhile, WotC has a whole pile of settings that could actually use rule updates (and in one case, [I]better[/I] rule updates). Races, classes, equipment, spells, and other rules changes (dragonmarks, defiling/preserving, portals, magic moons, etc.) Stronghold building rules would be nice, but I fail to see how that would be either essential or unique to GH. I'm curious what people who want this actually want it to include/have, and how that would be unique to a Greyhawk Campaign Setting book (or UA article). [/QUOTE]
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