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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Minigiant" data-source="post: 9798950" data-attributes="member: 63508">Those are the 2024 versions. Which prove my point.Most of The 2014 monsters (the ones designed with Mearls at the helm) had saving throw bonuses too low to make the save against control magic more than 40% of the time unless targeting their best score. This is because the spellcaster got to act their proficiency bonus to the roll but the monsters really did AND the spellcaster could always use their best abilty score.This is why an actual play half casters were actually slightly better than the theory because they casted on a secondary score and added their proficiency bonus to their DC so as long as they didn't Target the monsters best ability score they had a very good chance of the monster failing their saving throw.I don't know if this is because they wanted the ability check bonus and saving throw bonus to be the same in order to make improvisation easy or if they wanted to minimize the amount of numbers in a stat block. But an adverse effect of the design was that once you got past the very lowest levels of the game the spellcasters would be able to overtake the monsters with their DCs.Legendary resistance was a kludge get around this.2024 lesson this problem by giving most iconic or legendary monsters Proficiency in three to four saving throwsHeyBoth 2024 and 2014 liches have 11 Str and no save prof for a +0 to STR saves as a CR 21 Monster. Only +3 vs Cha. And the 2014 one has +2 vs Wis.No spell resistance.Legendary Resistance, Counterspell,  or get wrecked,  boney.</blockquote>

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