Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9802580" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Because there are many PF1e guns which have a higher misfire rate, and if you attempt to use a gun with which you are not proficient, the misfire range increases by +1.Which means that, when you become a more proficient gunslinger, you have more misfires each day, not less.Do you think the most skillful gunslingers to ever live should be misfiring about once every twelve seconds? Does that make any sense? Is that reasonable or realistic or appropriate?People are unlikely to complain about positives, so that entire argument is kind of a non-starter. Like...yes of course.But on the flipside, when someone becomes MORE SKILLED with using a particular style of fighting, yes, we expect them to do a difficult positive thing more often. We also expect them to have fewer accidents, not more accidents....Lanefan, you don't get that choice. If you want to do actual damage, you HAVE to make all your attacks. The game is designed around that. Just as 5th edition is designed around Fighters making four attacks per round at high levels, and Barbarians/Paladins/Rangers making two attacks per round with bonus damage.You are very literally saying, "It's fine! Just choose to suck at the thing your class was designed to do well!"You...really shouldn't make comments about game systems you don't know.In PF1e, which is what I explicitly said I was talking about multiple times, when a gunslinger gets a misfire, the weapon gains the Broken condition (-2 to hit and damage, can only crit on 20 regardless of the weapon's normal crit range, only deals 2x damage on a crit regardless of the weapon's usual crit effect), and the misfire range increases by 2 (or 4, for someone not trained with that weapon type). Then guess what? If you misfire again--which is now dramatically more likely because the weapon is Broken--the weapon, as I specifically said, EXPLODES. It deals its normal damage to you and everyone within some range of you, varying based on the weapon (usually a 5' or 10' radius around you).So, no. It is not "rarely when you crit-fumble you might take d4 damage, or deal that to an ally". It's "between a quarter and a third of the time, you make the weapon an active liability that can hurt your friends and yourself pretty nastily".Does that help make sense of why this is a bad rules design choice? It's not just the disagreement I know you and I have about the whole "random chance" thing. It's the combination of two pretty basic statements: (1) If someone becomes much, much more skilled at doing a particular thing, they should have fewer complications and more great successes, not horrible failures that remain proportionally frequent; and (2) because of the specific way PF1e misfire mechanics work, they are particularly punishing if you attempt to fire a weapon that has already misfired, and when critics pointed out that this would happen, instead of listening, Paizo outright banned some of the people who pointed this out in their public playtest boards.Nobody is coming to take away your personal crit-fumble tables. But crit-fumbles are not a widely-used game design choice for three very good, very clear reasons: players don't particularly like them because the everpresent risk of horrible punishing failure sucks and poisons the enjoyment most players feel for amazing success, an enemy crit-fumbling doesn't compensate for most players' negative feelings about crit-fumbling themselves*, and it is difficult to justify the logic of "your increased skill with firearms never causes any change to your misfire rate, so you will experience more misfires per round specifically because you are better at using guns".*That is, the bad feels from personally crit-fumbling are, for almost all players, more bad than the good feels from seeing an enemy crit-fumble.</blockquote>

Verification