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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9806559" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I mean, part of why folks said that is because, all through the playtest, that was in fact the official line. That it had to be 6-8 encounters of some kind, without all of them being combat.Anyone crunching the numbers for 5.0 can find quite simple demonstrations that it is, in fact, meant to be 6-8 Hard-to-Deadly encounters each day. [SPOILER]The Champion vs Battle Master presents possibly the cleanest example, because of how its damage feature works. A Battle Master gets a specific amount of extra damage dice each long-or-short rest (assuming you aren't using one of the few that don't add damage, e.g. Precision Attack). Hence, we can determine, on average, how much the BM would get for any given level, per rest.It is maximally favorable to consider the situation at level 5, as that's a local peak for the Champion. As TWF inflicts weaker raw damage especially on crits, the more Champion-favorable choice is two attacks with a greatsword. Between 3rd (receiving subclass) and 6th level, the BM has 4d8 bonus damage per short rest. I will assume, again for maximum favorability to the Champion, that this is never increased by critical hits, even though it actually would be. 4d8 is, on average, 18 extra damage per short rest--naturally they'll all vary, as will the Champion, so consider this an averaged bonus amount across many short rests, so that we're mitigating the randomness and getting the central tendency.Having just verified the math (tedious algebra, not super interesting), the Champ's damage bonus is nice and simple: +5% damage per attack attempted (this is, in fact, completely independent of hit chance!), but only 5% of the weapon dice, not the static modifier, since that's unaffected by crits. So the Champion needs 20 attacks to get (with GWF style) 8.333... bonus damage. That gives us an expected number of attempted attacks as being 20(18/8.333...) = 43.2 attack rolls. Allowing for a few OAs and other such things, call that about 20 rounds' worth of attacks.So that means, every single rest, short or long, just for the Champion to keep up with the Battle Master, you should be getting about 20 rounds of combat. And this is at a point of maximum favorability to the Champion, with multiple objectively false assumptions that lower the threshold (e.g. the BM isn't saving those dice for crits).Do any groups have an average of 20 rounds of combat per rest, consistently? I would be surprised to hear that even the most dogged, diehard groups manage an average of 15 rounds of combat for every single rest they take.[/SPOILER]And then remember that spellcasters, other than Warlock, are mostly independent of short rests, and have much leverage to try to avoid taking more rests--despite this tilting the balance even more in their favor. 5.5e made a small gesture in the opposite direction by adding Mastery Properties and making them inaccessible without taking at least one level of a primary-martial class (Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, or Rogue).I mean, I would argue it is also at least partially on the designers, for having repeatedly said things which, with the final rules in front of us, we can clearly see are false. That doesn't exculpate the folks who continued to repeat such things despite their falsity being demonstrable though.Oh, several ways. One problem that cropped up very early was the lack of delta between the totally clueless rube and the absolute master. IIRC, a completely untrained commoner had something like a 25% chance to Bluff Asmodeus himself, while the most proficient master (Expertise, maxed Cha), acting solely on her own abilities without supernatural aid...still had a 25% or 20% chance to fail, something like that.A second problem I cited before the game was even published was the rampant over-use of Advantage and Disadvantage. Because it is a benefit(/detriment) dead end, once you have even one source of Advantage, you can just...stop caring. At worst, you'll just roll normally, and usually you'll roll much better. Because there is no other way to improve your results, apart from spellcasting which has been breaking the rules of BA from the beginning, you end up with GMs lacking the tools to handle a situation where someone should have a more substantial bonus than just Advantage (or a more substantial penalty than just Disadvantage), but because the player has a feature they got three levels ago that grants them Advantage, well, you can't do anything about it.A third way is, well, as folks have just been saying in this thread, fighting the same enemies for 6, 8, 10 levels? Where your numbers improved by a nearly-imperceptible 1-3 points? That no longer feels like being on a treadmill--it feels like standing still. At least the treadmill gave the feeling of motion! 5e, both versions, give the feeling of not really getting anywhere. And why shouldn't they feel so? Most games end before 12th level. You'll be able to increase one ability score by 2 points, and your Proficiency bonus will increase by...two points. Meaning, the things you're supposed to be utterly amazing at doing...you're all of +4 better at. Not even as much impact as Advantage (equiv. to +5 on average), which is handed out like candy.5e has good ideas. I'd be an idiot to say otherwise. But it is a significant overcorrection in many ways, and now, over a decade in, folks are feeling it. I'm quite well convinced that 6e will look very similar to 13th Age--mostly because 5e is "3e with the numbers toned down", and 6e is going to end up being a synthesis of 4e and 5e, trying to pare back the overcorrections without going overboard in the process.That folks are feeling it is part of why I say that there will not be a decade of 5.5e. I don't expect to see it last more than five years before we start hearing credible leaks about playtesting for 6e.</blockquote>

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