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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9808718" data-attributes="member: 42582">I don't know what you mean by "the power level is so low"? How are you measuring power level?The 30th level Invoker/Wizard in my game can turn back time to return from the dead if killed; can dominate a group of enemies once per encounter; can manipulate magical effects with more skill and capability than the god Vecna. With bonuses for knowledge skills of between +35 and +45, he know virtually everything there is to know about everything. He has wrested secrets from the mind of Vecna.The 30h level Fighter/Cleric in the same game can perform close burst attacks multiple times per combat (with 3 close burst encounter powers). He can second wind to recover about half his hit points twice per encounter. His opportunity hits immobilise opponents. When the PCs fought a giant king riding on a dragon, this character was able to jump onto the dragon, pin its wings with his immobilising attack, and then survive the fall as it crashed to the ground. When the PCs fought the tarrasque, over the course of two rounds this character reduced its hp by around about 600.Your statements about what high level 4e play is like are simply not borne out by my experience.Here are just a couple of posts with more detai:[EMBED content="thread-490454"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/session-report-reposted-pcs-stave-of-the-dusk-war-by-negotiating-with-yan-c-bin-and-defeating-the-tarrasque.490454/[/EMBED][EMBED content="thread-358025"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/session-report-against-the-frost-giants.358025/[/EMBED]As per my post above, the 19th level powers are not "roughly 3rd level".And at-wills grow in power in all sorts of way - by stat bonus, by item, by 21st level increase in dice. At 1st level, Thunderwave will do 1d6+4 (or thereabouts) - an average of 7.5 hp damage - and push 2 or 3 squares (INT 18, WIS 14 or 16).At 20th level, both stats will have increased by 5, and the character will have a +4 implement (or inherent bonus), so damage will be 1d6+10 (or thereabouts) - an average of 13.5 hp damage - and push 4 or 5 squares.At 30th level, both stats will have typically increase by another 5, and the character will have a +6 implement, so damage will be 2d6+15 (or thereabouts) - an average of 22 hp damage - and push 7 or 8 squares.Character builds that are aimed more at damage that at control will of course have many other ways - magic items, utility powers, class abilities, feats - that boost their damage. The at-will damage for the Sorcerer in my game (Blazing Starfall, an AoE) was 1d4 + 1d10 +30 (average 38) at 20th level, and 2d4+ 1d10 + 52 (average 62.5) at 30th level. The doubled dice are not a very significant component of that.You can read the actual play posts linked above to see how much damage even a controlling-oriented fighter build can do in one round, with a combination of at wills, OAs and encounter powers.Every combat ability in D&D ever is a damage amount, plus an effect. Those are the basic elements from which combat in the game is built. That's all that 5e D&D abilities offer.But if you are claiming that (say) Charm of the Dark Dream plays the same as (say) a paragon or epic tier wizard's Thunderwave plays the same as (say) Twist of Space plays the same as (say) Cruel Reaper, than in my experience you're just wrong.4e is very technically demanding on players and GMs, especially above Paragon tier. But I didn't find it boring. And I wasn't the only one. When I played in Manbearat's PbP on these boards, I don't think the other players were bored either: <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-chamberlain-the-king-and-the-dragon-drobe.347648" target="_blank">The chamberlain, the king, and the dragon (drobe)</a></blockquote>

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