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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 9808934" data-attributes="member: 6716779">I didn't say 5th level was equivalent to a epic character. I said the level 19 spells are roughly equivalent to a 3rd level spell.  That's not what people are thinking of if youre playing high level. It feels completely  fake for high level. Same with minions.  The epic 4E level 29 powers are roughly equivalent to 5th maybe 6th level spells.  My original claim was 4E essentially stretched out level 3-10 over 30 levels. You can see it right there in the phb in black and white. Check those wizard powers out.  You get paragon and epic ability which is roughly equivalent to a 5E class ability and epic boon or two. 4E power design was why the game was so grindy. They had to slow things down to make concept work. Once again it feels fake. Meteor Swarm 8d6 damage level 29. 5E 40d6 and its not even one of the power spells. 5Es power level is also why the game starts to fall apart level 13 I'll also admit that. You can make it work but fun/effort ratio is off ymmv.</blockquote>