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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 9810802" data-attributes="member: 2525">I think everyone including very experienced players have fun with fireball and other direct damage spells even when they know it's not optimal. Optimal play isn't necessarily fun play, for most players regardless of experience.I think people here have a lot of experience playing on average. Regardless, I'm not sure what that really has to do with the topic. If you agree with me that sometimes just doing damage is more fun than control spells, even if you're very experienced at the game, then it's irrelevant how experienced people are on ENWorld for this particular topic.But how boring that would be. You're basically saying a Sorcerer should just push a button every combat. Even the most boring melee build is more interesting in variation of options than that. If there is such a thing as optimizing for fun, that surely isn't optimal. You're basically saying creatures are not built in particular to defend well against some very specific optimal builds. I'm fine with that. I don't think you can build creatures to be good against optimal builds and average builds at the same time, and if you need to choose one to design for, I'd prefer it be the average build. When dealing with an optimized party which was built to exploit the weaknesses of general monster construction, you need a DM who can optimize the foes. And a beauty of D&D is if you're dealing with players that experienced with tweaking out their PCs, then you're also likely dealing with a DM just as experienced with tweaking out their NPCs/challenges. Agreed as a generalization spellcasters are not good at direct damage, particularly single target direct damage. Which is again functioning as intended. Though of course there are exceptions, like some Clerics and Druids and at least one Bard.Barbarians up to 10th level are good at dealing direct damage without much optimization, particularly single target damage. Fighters above 10th level are good at that too without much optimization. Some other melee classes could use a bit of optimization to do it decently, such as Rogues (using true strike), Monks (very subclass dependant), and Paladins (using smite). Rangers can be, though their even more difficult to get there without some optimization. To me, this is all pretty well balanced. It doesn't do well under high level optimization without a DM also able to optimize. But, that seems to be a decent way to build a game too.</blockquote>

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