D&D 3E/3.5 "Military Scout Ranger" for 3.5e

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

That's an interesting idea . . . I'll consider it. But my first thought is, it doesn't seem like a long-range patrol ranger would need to/be likely to know other things that go with knowledge skills like nobility (etiquette), local (streetwiseness), and history (being learned about other aspects of history). I think my mistake here is to have it work "on top" of other skills, like K (nature) and K (geography). I think synergy with them makes more sense.

Maybe it's because I'm a big fan of 4e now, where the skills are incredibly broad (Nature, for instance, is everything from surviving in the wild to knowing how to commune with spirits), but I would expect a ranger to simply "not use" the skills that way.

It's also been my experience that while rangers have a good number of skill points, no one ever takes Knowledge (geography). It could be useful, but that just seems to fall under Survival.

Alternatively, build it like Wild Empathy, which is basically a more limited Diplomacy. Just make a check at level +3 + Int modifier to answer questions of the following type, working like a Knowledge skill check unless stated otherwise...

I don't disagree -- I was just quoting the rule I found. Perhaps it should +20 to the DC to track them, and can move at double move speed, or +10 to DC at a full run?

I think that's pretty neat. It's hard to track a ranger literally hustling in the dark... and his buddies. Yeah, awesome.

It does get +2 on Init in favored terrain, rising at higher levels. What do you suggest? I like the idea of this sort of Ranger often getting the first shot. +4 instead?

I like the idea of a ranger getting the first shot too, but going first is more important for a rogue or a wizard than a ranger. Unless the ranger does a lot of damage and can literally kill someone on the first shot, the enemies will, on their initiative, outfight them. (Of course, the ranger can swiftly move away, but the rest of the party won't be too happy about that.)

Again, 4e-speak, but I think a class needs a combat role to go with the flavor. Most alt-rangers do the flavor just fine ... this class's design knows exactly what it wants to be out-of-combat ... but in part because the ranger has no real defined combat flavor (archery doesn't really count, and is pretty vanilla anyway) the combat features get left behind.

A shorter way of saying this: the ranger needs offense to go with the initiative bonus and the skills.

Yes, I left the Combat Style related feats up to the DM, as there are many I could see, for different Combat Styles. I wouldn't just limit them to Archer (which I believe is most common for Rangers) and Two-Weapon Fighting. The Ranger I'm developing this for chose Hoplite (longspear and shield) and found a bunch of relevant feats in the Net Book of Feats -- Spear & Shield lets you use a two-handed longspear and a shield at once, Rank Fighting lets you use a longspear over a front rank comrade from the second rank, Near and Far lets you get a close opponents with a longspear. Makes another melee weapon besides swords a viable choice.

Personally I like spear-wielding rangers, although that's because the spear is a hunting weapon. (A shield... isn't.)

I sometimes see the ranger as not being a class. In D&DN, while there is a ranger class, you could generate a ranger without extra abilities tacked on with a fighter, taking the Military background (gives most relevant skills) and one or two appropriate combat packages. (Humans get an extra one, I think, haven't read the last playtest package yet.)

Even in 4e, I see the ranger as being an archer (with a bit of enforced flavor tacked on) rather than a ranger. With the simple house rule that you don't need to take Nature as a class skill, a 4e ranger could literally be a battlefield archer, with no wilderness skills to speak of.

It would probably be much more of a stretch than you're looking for, but if the ranger were in fact a short collection of feats, built on a fighter, you could be a spear-wielding shield-using fighter, putting your non-fighter feats toward being a scout and your combat feats toward (literally) specializing in the spear. Unfortunately, there's no good way of gaining the relevant skills at maxed out values in 3rd Edition.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Yes, I left the Combat Style related feats up to the DM, as there are many I could see, for different Combat Styles. I wouldn't just limit them to Archer (which I believe is most common for Rangers) and Two-Weapon Fighting. The Ranger I'm developing this for chose Hoplite (longspear and shield) and found a bunch of relevant feats in the Net Book of Feats -- Spear & Shield lets you use a two-handed longspear and a shield at once, Rank Fighting lets you use a longspear over a front rank comrade from the second rank, Near and Far lets you get a close opponents with a longspear. Makes another melee weapon besides swords a viable choice.

Dragon 326 added additional combat styles for rangers. A list of them can be found at http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9028.msg144722#msg144722 under the Dragon 326 spoiler.

 

[doghead]

Pathfinder APG also give a number of additional combat styles as options, namely crossbow, mounted combat, natural weapon, two-handed weapon, and weapon and shield. Mounted seems like a fairly obvious addition, given light horse often took the role of scouts and skirmishers.

The skill tax point is a good one. Rangers already have STR, DEX, CON and WIS as key attributes. There is unlikely to be much left over for INT increases. So 6 skill points per level will be it for most characters. Even consolidating spot/listen into Perception and hide/sneak into Stealth, they have a number of skills (Survival, Heal, and Ride maybe) all calling for attention. There is not going to be much left for Knowledge skills. Perhaps an alternative would be to use Profession (scout) to cover all the required areas. Specific Knowledge skills could be taken for synergy bonuses if the character has spare skill points.

Alternatively, build it like Wild Empathy, which is basically a more limited Diplomacy. Just make a check at level +3 + Int modifier to answer questions of the following type, working like a Knowledge skill check unless stated otherwise...

This works nicely as well.

thotd