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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Power_Munchkin" data-source="post: 3378406" data-attributes="member: 1624">hmI normally lurk, but this thread is being so unfair to wizards, that I feel compelled to throw my two cents in.There is an unspoken assumption here that wizards will engage the actual troops. That's nonsense, they have no reason to do so. Defeating an army by inflicting 98% casualty rate (as some poster suggested) is a lot of wasted effort.If the objective is to kill a bunch of high-level wizards and take their castle, an army of 10,000 is completely superfluous. It's like trying to hammer a nail with a pillow.Wizards have an unbeatable advantage when it comes to underhanded tactics - invisibility, polymorphing, and illusions. They have supreme mobility thanks to teleport, shadow walk, and overland flight. They have an excellent intelligence capability - scrying, detect thoughts, contact other plane, discern location (this doesn't even cover their superhuman intelligence score). Their defenses are in fact impenetrable - the army has no way of entering a magnificent mansion, finding the location of a ropetrick spell, or jumping to another plane. The army can never find a hideout that's only accessible by teleportation. The army has no way of dealing with contingency spells.If the wizards lack certain skills they can use planar binding or gate spells (the contract version) to get other beasties to do their bidding. Even if somehow the army manages to kill a wizard, he's likely to have a clone stashed away somewhere.Wizards would attack the army's weak points - supplies and commanders.1. An army marches on its stomach. Destroy the supply wagons. An army of 10,000 will either disperse or starve. Poisoning the water supply and spreading disease are also good options.2. Assassinate or dominate the top commanders. Kill them and make simulacrums. Kidnap their family members. Hit them with an insanity spell. Undermine their authority by casting Otto's dance. Preferably in the middle of a "brave heart" speech.Here is a plan off the top of my head.1. Find out who is leading the army. This is relatively easy, since it's likely to be a prominent person. Teleport (or shadow walk if teleportation is not allowed) several wizards to his home. Using invisibility and flight, infiltrate his house to aquire a personal item like a comb. Bonus points if you can find a stray hair (that'll provide a -10 on general's will save vs scrying instead of -5). If an opportunity presents itself, kidnap a family member. Even if the house is heavily guarded, it should be fairly easy - charm, dominate, sleep, or a nonlethal-substituted "boom" spell will do the trick. Get back to base and pet your white cat familiar.2. Use greater scrying to locate the general. Success is virtually guaranteed since you have an item of his. Greater scrying lasts for hours per level, and thus the wizards should be aware of all plans made against them. A couple of wizards could maintain a 24 hour surveillance with just two greater scrying spells a day. The wizards have pretty much won at this point.Think of it this way - could a medieval army defeat a dozen apache helicopters? Not really. Their best bet would be some sort of a trojan horse/sabotage scenario. Something you really shouldn't use an army for. Hire a wizard to infiltrate the fortress and kill off the occupants one by one.Even if you give the army the mob template, a contingency spell will still give the wizards an upper hand.</blockquote>

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