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<blockquote data-quote="WalterKovacs" data-source="post: 4287592" data-attributes="member: 63763"><p>It depends. If you are a Human [or Half-Elf] you gain additional options.</p><p></p><p>The main reason to diversify attributes is not so much to be able to use powers from the "other build" [there are admitedly some cross build powers for certain characters, like the Rogue for example, that are still quite usable for either build, and with Dex as the primary stat either way, there isn't as much of a loss as say ... a high WIS cleric taking a STR vs. AC power that will be hard to hit with] but to get access to certain feats. With the "spell damage" feats, you aren't getting much benefit at low levels [you are giving up probably +1 to hit and damage to get +1 to damage] ... once you get to 2nd tier, you at least get more damage than you are losing ... At that point its whether you spread the points out earlier, or later on when you are increasing your ability scores as you go up.</p><p></p><p>There are some feats worth 'dipping' for. [Charisma is nearly useless for a Wizard ... but starting with 12 instead of 10, for example, means you don't have to spend 4th and 8th upping CHA [with INT] to get Spell Focus, and instead you can level INT and WIS. </p><p></p><p>Still, it's hard to justify not having a 16 [with racial +2 to make it 18] in your primary ability score for determining attacks. However, the "options" generally come from deciding how to spread out the rest ... having a great secondary and a tiertiary, or having 3 "good" secondaries [for a total of 4 'good' stats].</p><p></p><p>The situations where spending 16 points to get an 18 in one stat seem to be quite uncommon though ... so right out of the gate, people are already chosing to drop their primary modifier by one "level" to be able to have decent secondaries. One of the few times I'd spend on the 18 would be for STR. If it's PHB only, you have to go with Dragonborn or Human to get the STR buff ... so if you went Dwarf, you'd be behind without the 18 STR. Fortunately, you can then get 3 secondary stats to 12 ... 14's for Con and Wis with your racial bonus, then slightly improve Init and Reflex with your Dex score. Thank goodness for heavy armor <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>So, as far as min max goes ... the lack of "first level" 20s at least show that MAXING isn't exactly happening ... but nearly everyone whould have something at 18, preferably their means of attacking. [With race becoming EXTREMELY important for class selection].</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WalterKovacs, post: 4287592, member: 63763"] It depends. If you are a Human [or Half-Elf] you gain additional options. The main reason to diversify attributes is not so much to be able to use powers from the "other build" [there are admitedly some cross build powers for certain characters, like the Rogue for example, that are still quite usable for either build, and with Dex as the primary stat either way, there isn't as much of a loss as say ... a high WIS cleric taking a STR vs. AC power that will be hard to hit with] but to get access to certain feats. With the "spell damage" feats, you aren't getting much benefit at low levels [you are giving up probably +1 to hit and damage to get +1 to damage] ... once you get to 2nd tier, you at least get more damage than you are losing ... At that point its whether you spread the points out earlier, or later on when you are increasing your ability scores as you go up. There are some feats worth 'dipping' for. [Charisma is nearly useless for a Wizard ... but starting with 12 instead of 10, for example, means you don't have to spend 4th and 8th upping CHA [with INT] to get Spell Focus, and instead you can level INT and WIS. Still, it's hard to justify not having a 16 [with racial +2 to make it 18] in your primary ability score for determining attacks. However, the "options" generally come from deciding how to spread out the rest ... having a great secondary and a tiertiary, or having 3 "good" secondaries [for a total of 4 'good' stats]. The situations where spending 16 points to get an 18 in one stat seem to be quite uncommon though ... so right out of the gate, people are already chosing to drop their primary modifier by one "level" to be able to have decent secondaries. One of the few times I'd spend on the 18 would be for STR. If it's PHB only, you have to go with Dragonborn or Human to get the STR buff ... so if you went Dwarf, you'd be behind without the 18 STR. Fortunately, you can then get 3 secondary stats to 12 ... 14's for Con and Wis with your racial bonus, then slightly improve Init and Reflex with your Dex score. Thank goodness for heavy armor ;) So, as far as min max goes ... the lack of "first level" 20s at least show that MAXING isn't exactly happening ... but nearly everyone whould have something at 18, preferably their means of attacking. [With race becoming EXTREMELY important for class selection]. [/QUOTE]
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