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Min/max'ing Rogues!
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 3525902" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>I tried invisible blade. You don't get the bluff as a free action for a significant while, especially if you take 1-3 levels in fighter or swashbuckler first (which helps alot). Feignting really isn't that good -- enemies add their BAB to the opposed roll, and most melee monsters have obscene BAB for their CR -- and can only be used in melee, where there are tons of other ways to get SA damage. I was doing the TWF dagger rogue, and gave up after 2 or 3 levels in and went with master thrower.</p><p></p><p>I cannot praise that class enough! Trip Shot lets you make every throw a trip attempt in addition to damage, plus you get to use dex instead of dtrength on the roll, plus I don't think you suffer any modifiers for size. Of course, the level 5 ability for that class which makes your throws against touch AC is awesome, but not even needed, if you want more sneak attack.</p><p></p><p>Staggering Strike is a great feat for any rogue, as is Savvy Rogue. Savvy Rogue improves rogue special abilities. My personal favorites: Crippling Strike - deal the str damage even on creatures that can't be sneak attacked!; Opportunist - only limited by AOOs and once per opponent per round. Mix in Crippling Strike and Staggering Strike for added sexiness.; Skill Mastery - Take 12!</p><p></p><p>For a ranged rogue not using throwing, the best advice I can give is to beg the DM to allow Quicker than the Eye from the 3.0 Song and Silence. For a move action, you make a bluff check opposed by Spot. If you win, your next attack that round is a sneak attack. Sometimes, especially against high-DR enemies, it's worth giving up a full attack for that. If your DM doesn't allow it, strive for a ring of blinking. All attacks are sneak attacks, but 20% chance to auto-miss. Finally, there are ranger and sor/wiz spells out there that let you do a ranged sneak attack at any distance for one round. And I think there's a feat to get sneak attack on a favored enemy even if they couldn't normally be sneak attacked, so a one level dip into ranger for the ability to SA undead may be worth it.</p><p></p><p>For melee rogues, get a grapple buddy. Have the summoner bring in flanking buddies. Even better is Persistent Blade, a level 1 sor/wiz spell. Does poor force damage (1d4 + 1/2 int or cha mod.), but it grants flanking to any ally who attacks the enemy. Taking the Martial Study feat for Sudden Leap gives you an easy way to get into melee and full-attack, or full attakc and then safely retreat w/ a DC 15 tumble check (It lets you do a standing jump as a swift action). There's a cheap pair of boots in MIC that likewise allow you to cheese the full attack / safe retreat goodness, this time by letting you take an extra 5 foot step 3 times a day. Granted this is better for scouts, but still good. If you don't need the boot slot for anything else, buy multiple pairs and change them between combats.</p><p></p><p>The most critical thing for rogues in general is to quickly find a way to avoid miss chances, as any miss chance at all kills SA. There are level 1 spells that can do this! If an archer rogue, a seeking bow is a quick fix. The clarity of Vision skill trick can help for a round.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 3525902, member: 35909"] I tried invisible blade. You don't get the bluff as a free action for a significant while, especially if you take 1-3 levels in fighter or swashbuckler first (which helps alot). Feignting really isn't that good -- enemies add their BAB to the opposed roll, and most melee monsters have obscene BAB for their CR -- and can only be used in melee, where there are tons of other ways to get SA damage. I was doing the TWF dagger rogue, and gave up after 2 or 3 levels in and went with master thrower. I cannot praise that class enough! Trip Shot lets you make every throw a trip attempt in addition to damage, plus you get to use dex instead of dtrength on the roll, plus I don't think you suffer any modifiers for size. Of course, the level 5 ability for that class which makes your throws against touch AC is awesome, but not even needed, if you want more sneak attack. Staggering Strike is a great feat for any rogue, as is Savvy Rogue. Savvy Rogue improves rogue special abilities. My personal favorites: Crippling Strike - deal the str damage even on creatures that can't be sneak attacked!; Opportunist - only limited by AOOs and once per opponent per round. Mix in Crippling Strike and Staggering Strike for added sexiness.; Skill Mastery - Take 12! For a ranged rogue not using throwing, the best advice I can give is to beg the DM to allow Quicker than the Eye from the 3.0 Song and Silence. For a move action, you make a bluff check opposed by Spot. If you win, your next attack that round is a sneak attack. Sometimes, especially against high-DR enemies, it's worth giving up a full attack for that. If your DM doesn't allow it, strive for a ring of blinking. All attacks are sneak attacks, but 20% chance to auto-miss. Finally, there are ranger and sor/wiz spells out there that let you do a ranged sneak attack at any distance for one round. And I think there's a feat to get sneak attack on a favored enemy even if they couldn't normally be sneak attacked, so a one level dip into ranger for the ability to SA undead may be worth it. For melee rogues, get a grapple buddy. Have the summoner bring in flanking buddies. Even better is Persistent Blade, a level 1 sor/wiz spell. Does poor force damage (1d4 + 1/2 int or cha mod.), but it grants flanking to any ally who attacks the enemy. Taking the Martial Study feat for Sudden Leap gives you an easy way to get into melee and full-attack, or full attakc and then safely retreat w/ a DC 15 tumble check (It lets you do a standing jump as a swift action). There's a cheap pair of boots in MIC that likewise allow you to cheese the full attack / safe retreat goodness, this time by letting you take an extra 5 foot step 3 times a day. Granted this is better for scouts, but still good. If you don't need the boot slot for anything else, buy multiple pairs and change them between combats. The most critical thing for rogues in general is to quickly find a way to avoid miss chances, as any miss chance at all kills SA. There are level 1 spells that can do this! If an archer rogue, a seeking bow is a quick fix. The clarity of Vision skill trick can help for a round. [/QUOTE]
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