Mindflayer clerics -- associated?

[Quasqueton]

Is cleric an associated class for mindflayers, or nonassociated?

Quasqueton

 

[lukelightning]

I think that cleric is pretty much always associated, given the sheer versatility of clerical magic.

 

[frankthedm]

I think that cleric is pretty much always associated, given the sheer versatility of clerical magic.

I and wotc disagree. Versatile levels are supposed to be non associated. A monster does not live long enough to use that versatility. If the levels don’t directly add about as much as a CR worth of hit dice, which the flayer needs due to anemic HP, they are unassociated.

Though it is a close call after a few levels of cleric. A level or two of cleric won't play to the mind flayer much, though I would say count cleric levels as associated starting at 5th rather than 8th [or ninth]. Even I think wotc was doing some nasty cheating with the MM3 Eldritch Giant Confessor.

Now there are also rules that govern additional XP awards for harder or easier fights IIRC up to +/- 50%.

Harder, like for example when a NPC cleric is tipped off minutes or rounds before the PCs arrive [and that was not the PC's fault] and it spelldumps all it had into it's minions.
Easier when the PCs do this.
And it evens out when both sides do this.

 

[lukelightning]

I meant versatile as in it can fill a wide variety of niches and can be optimized as a melee role or caster role or whatever. A cleric can buff itself significantly, and mind flayer cleric can easily escape and make use of healing.

 

[Sejs]

Toughie, as it sits right on the fence of Schtick. A mind flayer's schtick is pretty much in-line with a sorcerer's (or psion's) - they hang back and magic at you. So thus a fighter or psychic warrior would be non-associated, but a cleric really kind of straddles that divide between hanging back and in your face.

If I had to pin it down, I'd probably say that for a mind flayer, cleric levels would be non-associated. Heavy armor, 3/4ths bab, spells that generally involve either getting up there and doing something yourself, or alternativly, giving a damn about others in the form of buffs and healing just don't quite jive with the mind flayer's detatched mental tyranny m.o.

So yeah. Non-associated.

Mean, but non-associated. Just like a mind flayer psychic warrior would be mean, but non-associated.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I would say non-associated unless you really optimize your feats to use the cleric resources. FREX, monsters with unusually high Cha can get a lot of mileage out of a single level of cleric and a Divine feat or two. Divine Might? Divine Power?

 

[Bad Paper]

so what happens with a mind flayer divine mind, or whatever that cleric/psion class is called? or mystic theurge?

 

[Sejs]

I can't say about the divine mind, as I don't have the book, but when you start getting into multiclassing things get a bit more vague. You sort of have to examine the overall direction the class combination leans to in total.

So, like you mentioned, say a Mystic Theurge, I'd probably tag as being closer to associated because the MT is similar in form and function to the sorc/psion/wiz end of things. They're glass cannons. Which is itself quite mindflayery

 

[pawsplay]

With several hit dice, their natural abilities based on Charisma, with a set of natural attacks better than cleric weapons. It's true, they might turn themselves Large and go grabbing people left and right while crushing them with Divine Might, but in that case, they're not mind blasting.

So I'm doing to say... associated! With a +6 Wisdom, everything to gain from heavier armor, and the likelihood of self-buffing, I'd say Cleric is right up their alley.

Are mind flayers bad at anything?

 

[Bad Paper]

Are mind flayers bad at anything?

I find it particularly hard to keep them alive. I think something about them kicks my campaign's party into high gear and they just totally let loose. They fail their saves all the friggin time, mostly because the party throws so much at them. I would recommend doing whatever you can to boost their saves.