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Message: <blockquote data-quote="moritheil" data-source="post: 3084416" data-attributes="member: 30610">I could have sworn the sample advanced mindflayer had sorc levels because sorc was their favored class.  Oh well, that was from memory after all.  Also, IIRC there are some errors in that sample illithid, so it isn't really a good basis for argument either way.It doesn't.  But where does it say that cleric is definitely associated?  It doesn't say that either.  So we're left with opinions.An illithid has no divine casting ability.  It does not heal itself or others, and does not melee well.  It cannot turn or rebuke undead.  I view that as indicating that it is not a cleric at all.To me, the simplest way of settling "associated" is, rather than making a lot of wishy-washy arguments over whether or not something is or isn't adding to its combat role, simply checking to see if the thing is a cleric or not.  Here, it isn't.In short, if you're dead-set on arguing for association because of your own opinion, nothing I can say is likely to sway you.  But there's no good rules basis for it.  The only rules that do exist seem to lean towards not making cleric associated.Only if we're talking about absolutes.  Are you?  I'm not stating that it MUST NOT be associated; I'm stating that I simply wouldn't associate it, as there's no proof that it must be associated.</blockquote>