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Message: <blockquote data-quote="el-remmen" data-source="post: 4112714" data-attributes="member: 11">If I have heard it once, I have heard it a thousand times on these boards, some people are turned off by the reliance on minis and the grid in 3E (and now the upcoming 4E).  Common complaints are that during combat scenes the game is reduced to a tactical mini game where every possible option and optimal movement and positioning must be considered as the group takes on their foes and takes stock of their tactical position - essentially bogging the game down, and sometimes really annoying people when other players tell them what the "best" thing for their character to do is.Personally, my group never has this problem and we have used minis and grid movement since 2E days.  Essentially, we play that all tactical discussion has to be done in-character and speaking can only be done as a free action on your own turn (with a limit of about 5 to 10 words give or take, the DM being finally arbiter of how much you can say, as is the case with the number of any free actions that are allowed to a character).This means there is no delay while people are polled about what should be done, and no one can start giving broad suggestions.  On your action you do what your character would do, that's it. Part of that might include calling suggests (or orders) to others, but if there is any expectation about it being done, it is an in-character one.  If you want to wait to hear what someone suggests then you delay (or ready an action if possible).  However, this also means that intelligent opponents that understand your language might hear and react to the suggestions being yelled across the battlefield.  In addition, when as DM the PCs are facing organized intelligent foes, I have to make sure I have them call out to each other for help and suggestions.There are other rules we use to foster this. For example, any time you count a box for movement it means you character has moved there, no exceptions.*  Also, you choose a target before counting the range, when it comes to missile weapons and spells. We call these our "fog of war rules." In other words, not only can people make mistakes, chances are that in any combat mistakes will be made on either side. In our experience, this allows for a fun tactical aspect to the game (which I particularly like), but also adds to the drama and allows everyone to play their character as they see fit without the pressure of optimal tactical action.  It also draws out the fights making them more interesting and dynamic.Also, since everything is in-character, the grid and the minis seem to detract less from the inward visualization of the combat.  The minis are there to mark characters' places, not to represent a playing piece infused with the powers of a D&D class.Anyway, I was curious. Does anyone else play this way? I am not sure if in all the years I have been on these boards (8!) that I have seen anyone post that they played in the same fashion or similarly.* Okay, I lied.  The only exception to this is that the DM is immune to this rule. Since he often has to handle many more foes than the players (who generally only have to worry about themselves, or perhaps one or two hirelings or followers), he gets more leeway.  However, in my own case, for the sake of expediency, I often just let the mini stand wherever I put it even if I do make a mistake.  It is just when I know there is something specific I was going to have them do and I forgot because I had to run 10 other creatures before initiative cycled around again that I take it back and start counting over, or whatever.</blockquote>

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