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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lord Zardoz" data-source="post: 4113204" data-attributes="member: 704">I think that the use of a grid an miniatures is only really a problem for games where the space to set up your game is at a premium.  If you have a smaller than ideal table, using the grid will result in very cramped gaming, with no space to set down books.While I do not use the rules that el-remmen uses regarding 'back seat gaming', I do use a grid and minis for my game.  I have had no problems with things being slowed down by people trying to work out exactly how they ought to move or position themselves or spell effects.  In my experience, the use of the Miniatures solves more problems than it causes.  Off the top of my head, here are problems that could legitimately be caused by using minis. - Added cost of Mini's and battle mat:  Possibly significant.  If you want real minis available for each player and a decent number of humanoid combatants, you would want about 20. - Space concerns:  If your gaming table is small, creating an open space on a table already crowded with players, books, the DM Screen and Notes, and snacks is a pain in the arse. - Extra clean up:  Most people have to put their crap away after the game. - Tactical Overthinking:  The positioning of the minis may eat up more timeHere are the problems that the Minis solve in my experience - No position arguments, less use of Fiat:  Any dispute about combat positioning is resolved. - The rules become easier to use:  When I am not using minis, rules for cover, high ground advantage, difficult terrain, and Squeezing into a narrow space simply never get used.  The rules for reach and AoO actually become reasonable to use. - Players will do more things in combat:  When gaming without minis, combat really is just 'I move over to the big guy and attack'.  With a grid and whatever terrain I put into play, skills such as Balance, Climb, Swim, and Jump might actually come into play during combat.  - Heavy Armor is actually a tradeoff:  Without minis, the difference between movement 20 and movement 30 is not significant.  But with the grid in use, those over armoured tank players can be made to pay for wearing heavy armour.- Ranged Combat is more effective:  I have found that players who might not bother with ranged combat in some circumstances will actually use a bow once in a while.  Those that actually prefer to use their bow will often get more use out of it before being forced into melee.  Also, an archer with Mv 30 presents a real problem for a heavily armoured opponent with move 20. - Tactical Play is actually fun:  Players will try to set up flanks.  They will helpfully point out when you provoke an AoO with one of your combatants.  If they are being shot at, they will take cover.To sum up, when i am using a grid, the rules that cause some of the most vocal complaints, (Movement AoO's), are not very difficult to use.  Combat will move faster with no arguments about positioning.  Spells like Fireball, while still devastating, usually wont hit more then 4 opponents at a time in practice.  I have found my players are more engaged in combat, and more likely to do something other than say 'I attack'.END COMMUNICATION</blockquote>

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