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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6132841" data-attributes="member: 6696971">My take is that it depends on the system and the people involved.&nbsp; As general rules, each of the below &quot;features/bugs&quot; (depending on how you see it and the acumen of your players), create an increasing propensity for decision points to be &quot;weighty&quot;, and therefore, combat turns to become lengthy, specifically, or combat, generally, to go pear-shaped.- A robust/deep Action Economy.- Robust/deep PC build schemes.- Complexity of deployable resource interactions rules (eg PC<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :P"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />C force multiplaction - teamwork, status effects, frequency tracking, complex durations).- Robust Obstacle/Terrain:Movement interaction rules.- Complex PC/NPC interaction with the physical world rules.- Inelegant, vague, opaque encounter building rules, math, and/or disfunctional challenges (monsters, hazards, traps, etc)Each iteration of D&amp;D has had a different collection of each of these features/bugs.&nbsp; Due to this, whenever I play each of the various systems, I will have a hard ceiling that I will not move past.&nbsp; In 1e, megadungeon, one-offs, I have no problem entertaining 7 - 8 PCs.&nbsp; In my 4e campaigns, I (personally...there are plenty of folks who enjoy a 7 - 8 PC game) do not like to go beyond 4 PCs.&nbsp; Of course, part of this is system-neutral and due to the available player pool and/or type of players you are playing with.&nbsp; Chemistry and cohesion are paramount.&nbsp; There are a lot more narcissitic, pathologically unaware (or indifferent), and overall, disfunctional people in this world than there are humble, sacrificing, mentally present and highly functional people.&nbsp; The gamer populace, unsurprisingly, follows this trend neatly.&nbsp; As such, I've seen &quot;addition by subtraction&quot; a thousand times more than I've seen a new player (one time ever) be an extraordinarily additive influence on an existing campaign or gaming group.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6132841, member: 6696971"] My take is that it depends on the system and the people involved. As general rules, each of the below "features/bugs" (depending on how you see it and the acumen of your players), create an increasing propensity for decision points to be "weighty", and therefore, combat turns to become lengthy, specifically, or combat, generally, to go pear-shaped. - A robust/deep Action Economy. - Robust/deep PC build schemes. - Complexity of deployable resource interactions rules (eg PC:PC force multiplaction - teamwork, status effects, frequency tracking, complex durations). - Robust Obstacle/Terrain:Movement interaction rules. - Complex PC/NPC interaction with the physical world rules. - Inelegant, vague, opaque encounter building rules, math, and/or disfunctional challenges (monsters, hazards, traps, etc) Each iteration of D&D has had a different collection of each of these features/bugs. Due to this, whenever I play each of the various systems, I will have a hard ceiling that I will not move past. In 1e, megadungeon, one-offs, I have no problem entertaining 7 - 8 PCs. In my 4e campaigns, I (personally...there are plenty of folks who enjoy a 7 - 8 PC game) do not like to go beyond 4 PCs. Of course, part of this is system-neutral and due to the available player pool and/or type of players you are playing with. Chemistry and cohesion are paramount. There are a lot more narcissitic, pathologically unaware (or indifferent), and overall, disfunctional people in this world than there are humble, sacrificing, mentally present and highly functional people. The gamer populace, unsurprisingly, follows this trend neatly. As such, I've seen "addition by subtraction" a thousand times more than I've seen a new player (one time ever) be an extraordinarily additive influence on an existing campaign or gaming group. [/QUOTE]

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