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<blockquote data-quote="Tovec" data-source="post: 6082556" data-attributes="member: 95493">Actually there IS a rule for that. (Check the SRD via the link provided above.)It is known as &quot;apply all penalties&quot; and if the result is 0 bump it up to 1.Your way requires doing two different steps for something that doesn't need it. Why are you doing 1 - 1 = 0 (bumped to 1) plus 1? Why not ..1 - 1(for str penalty) + 1(for bard) = 1..which is the SAME as..1 + 1(for bard) - 1(for str) = 1As long as you do ALL the calculations together, one after another, and then apply the minimum 0 thing LAST it doesn't matter which way it is written. 1+1-1=1-1+1 but not 1-1 = 1(bumped) +1 (= 2) You are applying the bump too early.&nbsp; @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=22424" target="_blank">delericho</a> Right but DR works the same way that this min 0 thing works - in that you apply is versus the TOTAL. That is part of the reason for doing a crit in that way, so you do EXTRA damage instead of doing damage AGAIN.I think that it should be (1-1+1)+(1-1+1)=2. I don't see how you get around that. As I pointed out the first time having that +1 from the bard makes no difference here. You would have an argument, as far as I see it, if the damage was (1-1)+(1-1)=0 but bumped up to 1. But it doesn't apply in this case because it comes out to 2 because the bonuses and penalties are applied twice. Heck, a lenient DM may allow the halfling to roll the damage on the crit - since it is technically supposed to be rolled twice anyway. In either case, in this situation with a 1-1+1 the result is 1, not 0, not 2. And when the x2 crit is applied it is bumped to 2 (without a re-roll, but with a confirmation).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tovec, post: 6082556, member: 95493"] Actually there IS a rule for that. (Check the SRD via the link provided above.) It is known as "apply all penalties" and if the result is 0 bump it up to 1. Your way requires doing two different steps for something that doesn't need it. Why are you doing 1 - 1 = 0 (bumped to 1) plus 1? Why not .. 1 - 1(for str penalty) + 1(for bard) = 1 ..which is the SAME as.. 1 + 1(for bard) - 1(for str) = 1 As long as you do ALL the calculations together, one after another, and then apply the minimum 0 thing LAST it doesn't matter which way it is written. 1+1-1=1-1+1 but not 1-1 = 1(bumped) +1 (= 2) You are applying the bump too early. @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=22424"]delericho[/URL][/U][/B][/I] Right but DR works the same way that this min 0 thing works - in that you apply is versus the TOTAL. That is part of the reason for doing a crit in that way, so you do EXTRA damage instead of doing damage AGAIN. I think that it should be (1-1+1)+(1-1+1)=2. I don't see how you get around that. As I pointed out the first time having that +1 from the bard makes no difference here. You would have an argument, as far as I see it, if the damage was (1-1)+(1-1)=0 but bumped up to 1. But it doesn't apply in this case because it comes out to 2 because the bonuses and penalties are applied twice. Heck, a lenient DM may allow the halfling to roll the damage on the crit - since it is technically supposed to be rolled twice anyway. In either case, in this situation with a 1-1+1 the result is 1, not 0, not 2. And when the x2 crit is applied it is bumped to 2 (without a re-roll, but with a confirmation). [/QUOTE]

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