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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Minion + Swarm = Henchmen
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<blockquote data-quote="Mesh Hong" data-source="post: 4771843" data-attributes="member: 73463"><p>Its an interesting idea, you are basically trying to come up with yet another approach for elite minions. Its a worthy ambition.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Yes fair enough.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>There is no precident for this in the system. Elites and Solos don't get bonuses to hit or deal extra damage with standard attacks so why should elite minions get this advantage? Really if you want to give them a +1 to attack you should increase their level by 1.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>A flat untyped resistance equal to its level might work, I really don't think you should be adding it to any natural resistances though. After playing around with some numbers I assume that this is purely to stop auto damage from killing the creature; eg cleave, rod of reaving, splash damage etc</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Again I see what you are trying to do here but I think it is the wrong approach. Resistance + half damage is far too strong for what you are trying to achieve, and I really can't see any pecident for a creature mysteriously taking half damage (which will most likely result in no damage)</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Again, I'm sorry but this seems out of place as well, the henchman should be doing damage through attacking, not with a damage aura (then attacking). I can very much imagine these henchmen rushing in to positions where they can catch multiple PCs in their damage aura and dealing large amounts of damage. I know you want to make them a threat but I don't think this is the way to achieve that.</p><p> </p><p>Even though my comments are quite negative I still think its an interesting idea and should be developed.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>For the record my current thinking with this sort of thing is the elite minion:</p><p>- double xp value (worth 2 minions)</p><p>- first hit bloodies elite minion</p><p>- second hit kills elite minion</p><p> </p><p>I think this is quite an elegant solution as it doesn't interfere with any of the existing rules or powers and also allows powers or effects that rely on the bloodied state to be used by both sides.</p><p> </p><p>I am also testing revised minion xp values (as put forward by someone on this board - <em>Keterys</em> maybe?)</p><p>level 1 to 5 = 4 minions = 1 standard creature</p><p>level 6 to 10 = 5 minions = 1 standard creature</p><p>level 11 to 15 = 6 minions = 1 standard creature</p><p>level 16 to 20 = 7 minions = 1 standard creature</p><p>level 21 to 25 = 8 minions = 1 standard creature</p><p>level 26 to 30 = 9 minions = 1 standard creature</p><p> </p><p>again I like this because it doesn't alter any stats or powers, it just increases the number of minions in an encounter. I think this will work well as the players love cutting a massive swathe through minions but as a DM you will still have enough left over to make a decent fight.</p><p> </p><p>The only real issue I have with minions is at paragon level when you suddenly have burst 8 encounter powers. Now I don't want to ban or neuter the power but in order to still use minions I need a appropriate and balanced creature side change. I believe a combination of the 2 above rules will achieve it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mesh Hong, post: 4771843, member: 73463"] Its an interesting idea, you are basically trying to come up with yet another approach for elite minions. Its a worthy ambition. Yes fair enough. There is no precident for this in the system. Elites and Solos don't get bonuses to hit or deal extra damage with standard attacks so why should elite minions get this advantage? Really if you want to give them a +1 to attack you should increase their level by 1. A flat untyped resistance equal to its level might work, I really don't think you should be adding it to any natural resistances though. After playing around with some numbers I assume that this is purely to stop auto damage from killing the creature; eg cleave, rod of reaving, splash damage etc Again I see what you are trying to do here but I think it is the wrong approach. Resistance + half damage is far too strong for what you are trying to achieve, and I really can't see any pecident for a creature mysteriously taking half damage (which will most likely result in no damage) Again, I'm sorry but this seems out of place as well, the henchman should be doing damage through attacking, not with a damage aura (then attacking). I can very much imagine these henchmen rushing in to positions where they can catch multiple PCs in their damage aura and dealing large amounts of damage. I know you want to make them a threat but I don't think this is the way to achieve that. Even though my comments are quite negative I still think its an interesting idea and should be developed. For the record my current thinking with this sort of thing is the elite minion: - double xp value (worth 2 minions) - first hit bloodies elite minion - second hit kills elite minion I think this is quite an elegant solution as it doesn't interfere with any of the existing rules or powers and also allows powers or effects that rely on the bloodied state to be used by both sides. I am also testing revised minion xp values (as put forward by someone on this board - [I]Keterys[/I] maybe?) level 1 to 5 = 4 minions = 1 standard creature level 6 to 10 = 5 minions = 1 standard creature level 11 to 15 = 6 minions = 1 standard creature level 16 to 20 = 7 minions = 1 standard creature level 21 to 25 = 8 minions = 1 standard creature level 26 to 30 = 9 minions = 1 standard creature again I like this because it doesn't alter any stats or powers, it just increases the number of minions in an encounter. I think this will work well as the players love cutting a massive swathe through minions but as a DM you will still have enough left over to make a decent fight. The only real issue I have with minions is at paragon level when you suddenly have burst 8 encounter powers. Now I don't want to ban or neuter the power but in order to still use minions I need a appropriate and balanced creature side change. I believe a combination of the 2 above rules will achieve it. [/QUOTE]
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