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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 4735469" data-attributes="member: 58197">IMO, the minion concept is excellent, but it's undercut by the existence of auto-damage effects like wall of fire, and by the fact that minion damage doesn't scale nearly fast enough. At the very low levels, they almost live up to their billing as 1/4 of a normal monster, but they quickly fall behind as the PCs advance. By Paragon tier, you have to double or even triple the listed minion damage in order to make them a threat; moreover, you have to take account of AoE insta-kill effects, either by keeping the minions carefully spread out or simply by throwing a bunch of extra minions into the fight to soak up the first wave of blasting. (Given that the whole point of minions is to be disposable extras, and since I don't bother tracking XP, I favor the latter approach.)The save-on-auto-damage effect is one I've been considering. I don't really like making the fighter roll a second die on his Cleave attacks just to prevent the wizard from wiping out armies with one spell, but maybe...The "tough minion" approach is also very interesting. Might have to try that.</blockquote>