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<blockquote data-quote="Amakar" data-source="post: 4233020" data-attributes="member: 60900">I like itWell, I think both speed an balance are a factor.Look at the Pit Fiend:An encounter with the Pit Fiend can consist of:&nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Pit Fiend, 2 Bone Devils, 4 Legion Devils&nbsp; (the others advanced to match the Pit Fiend.)Now the Pit Fiend can quickly summon&nbsp; 8&nbsp; more 21st level Minions....We now have a fight with 5 PC vs 15 Devils. That's going to be one Hell of a fight (pun intended)Running that fight might be daunting.. in 3e if you could balance that fight by CR and make it fair.. it would be insane to run.15 Monsters, 15 hit point totals, 15 potential victims to track status ailments from high level PCs cool tricks and spells, 15 attack rolls and 15 damage dice. Imagine 15 ongoing damage effects and saving throws for 15 creatures.&nbsp;&nbsp; Bookkeeping from hell.1 hour later.. round 2.4e turns it down to 3 things to keep track of, and 12 minis to just yank off the board when you're done with them.Also, due to the sheet volume of Minions, one or more will almost certainly crit. Frankly, I'd just round up the 1/2 point (instead of down) when averaging minions damage and call it even.Too swingy if the minions get crits and if thye had crit based abilities.. what's the stop a DM from throwing the full 20 minions at you. They will get at least 30 attacks, probably a lot more. Crits are luck when it a 1 in 20 shot.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you roll 30 attacks and a few are crits.. yawn.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Amakar, post: 4233020, member: 60900"] [b]I like it[/b] Well, I think both speed an balance are a factor. Look at the Pit Fiend: An encounter with the Pit Fiend can consist of: 1 Pit Fiend, 2 Bone Devils, 4 Legion Devils (the others advanced to match the Pit Fiend.) Now the Pit Fiend can quickly summon 8 more 21st level Minions.... We now have a fight with 5 PC vs 15 Devils. That's going to be one Hell of a fight (pun intended) Running that fight might be daunting.. in 3e if you could balance that fight by CR and make it fair.. it would be insane to run. 15 Monsters, 15 hit point totals, 15 potential victims to track status ailments from high level PCs cool tricks and spells, 15 attack rolls and 15 damage dice. Imagine 15 ongoing damage effects and saving throws for 15 creatures. Bookkeeping from hell. 1 hour later.. round 2. 4e turns it down to 3 things to keep track of, and 12 minis to just yank off the board when you're done with them. Also, due to the sheet volume of Minions, one or more will almost certainly crit. Frankly, I'd just round up the 1/2 point (instead of down) when averaging minions damage and call it even. Too swingy if the minions get crits and if thye had crit based abilities.. what's the stop a DM from throwing the full 20 minions at you. They will get at least 30 attacks, probably a lot more. Crits are luck when it a 1 in 20 shot. If you roll 30 attacks and a few are crits.. yawn. [/QUOTE]

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