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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Dude" data-source="post: 4215053" data-attributes="member: 30511">In all likelihood, the first time PCs encounter that monster, it was not a minion.  The PCs probably will not face the minion-version until they advance high enough that one-hit-kills seem reasonable.Even if the PCs do meet minion-versions of that monster early on, the PCs will probably never know that the monster had only 1 HP unless they chronically roll crap damage (possible) or the DM doesn't bother to let them roll and announce damage before declaring the monster dead (which foolishly disrupts player immersion).  The player could make a good guess based on their knowledge of minion rules, but it is still only a guess without the above.I don't think the minions are intended to exist independently of the PCs.  A monster is appropriate for normal use when the PCs are at one level, but the minion "template" (I don't know if that is the terminology that 4e is using) is better when the PCs reach a higher level.  Minions don't "exist" until the DM feels that minions of that level need to exist for the PCs.For example, a party of first-level PCs could face a group of 6th level minions.  With only one hit point and the slower rate of increase in AC/Defs, the party could win.  However, the NPC's AC/Defs-BAB-DmgOutput relative to the PCs would create a virtual save-or-die situation- it would be a race to see who struck who first.  Despite the 1 HP rule, a party of 6th level minions is NOT an appropriate challenge for a 1st level party.  6th level minions are better for parties of 6th level or higher (depending on how tough the monster is supposed to be without the template- some monsters normally have more HP than others); while the PCs are lower in level, they should never face the minion-version of that monster (unless the DM thinks of a reason why it would be ok).  The monsters do not have the minion template until the PCs reach a level high enough that a horde of easily-killed monsters of that type is a good idea.  You might say that the minion template is PC dependent, not world dependent.Don't get me wrong; I do worry about this set of rules.  I don't think anything in-game is going to tell the PCs "hey, these are minions; they only have 1 HP" and break the immersion.  However, my players' awareness of the minion rule may cause a break in immersion and that does worry me.  Hopefully, it won't be a problem.  If it ends up a problem, I will come up with a houserule that handles the problem.</blockquote>

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